The case of Madeleine McCann

[tyler]

Thanks Patti x

[Patti]

Thanks Patti x

That might indicate that the abductor left by the patio doors and went round to the front car park and headed of toward the area where JT saw a man carrying a child....

My argument is this...why travel east towards Lagos then 30 or so minutes later several witnesses saw a man carrying a child similar to JT's description in the South West of PDL...

My answer to this is that the abductor panicked. he knew he had been seen by JT and changed directions..like any normal criminal would...Its a possibility! 

[mike tesko]

That might indicate that the abductor left by the patio doors and went round to the front car park and headed of toward the area where JT saw a man carrying a child....

My argument is this...why travel east towards Lagos then 30 or so minutes later several witnesses saw a man carrying a child similar to JT's description in the South West of PDL...

My answer to this is that the abductor panicked. he knew he had been seen by JT and changed directions..like any normal criminal would...Its a possibility! 

Nobody knew patio doors were unlocked, only McCann parents, until about 9:30am when two other tapas group members were informed of this fact ( could someone please identify who these two male members were / are)...

[mike tesko]

There is considerable doubt, about the timing of purported checks on the children, by various members of the so called 'TAPAS GANG'. In fact, two versions of when these checks were supposedly carried out, by all and sundry. All I would like to know, is which timed versions are correct, one or other, or neither?

[mike tesko]

There is considerable doubt, about the timing of purported checks on the children, by various members of the so called 'TAPAS GANG'. In fact, two versions of when these checks were supposedly carried out, by all and sundry. All I would like to know, is which timed versions are correct, one or other, or neither?

Why would there be two different versions of alleged, or purported timed, events?

[mike tesko]

Why would there be two different versions of alleged, or purported timed, events?

Exactly, how many versions of the truth are there, out there?

[Patti]

Mike I think it was M. Oldfield that last checked MM at about 9:30...Kate told him the patio doors were closed but not locked. 

MO listened outside of the shutter during one of his checks and said the shutter was down...

4078 "And you are confident the shutter was down?"
 
Reply "Yeah, absolutely".
 
4078 "Is that because you can remember seeing it down or because you just think you would have noticed if it hadn't have been down?"
 
Reply "I'm pretty sure I saw them down".
 
4078 "And when you listened outside the room where Madeleine was?"
 
Reply "Yeah".
 
4078 "How close would you have got to the shutter?"
 
Reply "I'd have been about a foot away, because, I mean, the shutters, you're not sure how well you're going to hear something through, so my ear wouldn't have been pressed against the two, but, erm, it would have been sort of about a foot or so".
 
4078 "And how long would you have listened for outside that particular window?"
 
Reply "Erm, five or ten seconds".

When Oldfield returned GM said I'll go and check on the kids. Matthew told he had listed outside M's window, but Gerry went anyway...then JT followed him a couple of minutes later. This is when she saw GM talking to Jenkins.  The last TWO males to go and do checks were Russel and Matthew.....Russell stayed in his apartment because one of their children were ill....

Matthew went back to the restaurant and informed JT that one of their children were ill.  JT finished her meal and then went back again to her apartment to relieve Russell....

The important thing to note is that JT walks passed the window 3 times after seeing a man carrying a child...Matthew walks passed it twice and Russell once, but I doubt Russell would have noticed the shutter being open because he would have had his back towards the window...The window would have only been noticed on the way back to the restaurant.....

[tyler]

That is odd. I thought that GM stood and spoke to his friend AFTER he had been in the apartment,in which it is said that he spent quite some time? If JT had followed GM out of the restaurant by only a couple of minutes,then GM must have spoken to his friend BEFORE he went into the apartment,if he even went in at all?

[Patti]

That is odd. I thought that GM stood and spoke to his friend AFTER he had been in the apartment,in which it is said that he spent quite some time? If JT had followed GM out of the restaurant by only a couple of minutes,then GM must have spoken to his friend BEFORE he went into the apartment,if he even went in at all?

All I know is that Gerry went first and on the way out of the apartment he stopped and spoke to Jenkins.  Then JT goes out and sees them...There is a timeline somewhere...

4078 "And you said when you went in you went in through the patio door?"
 
Reply "Yeah"
 
4078 "Or the poolside door?"
 
Reply "Yeah".
 
4078 "How did you know to go through there?"
 
Reply "Well Kate said that that one was open".
 
4078 "And when did she say that?"
 
Reply "When I offered to go and, erm, go and look".
 
4078 "Okay".
 
Reply "Because I said do you want me to check the kids and she said yeah the patio door is open".
 
4078 "Okay".
 
Reply "I mean, it was closed, it wasn't sort of open".
 

[tyler]

So really,with all the activity from the tapas group between 9.30 and 10pm there wasn't much window of oppurtunity for any abductor.Unless,as GM says,the abductor may have already been in the apartment when he did his last check,and the guy JT allegedly saw,may have been the abductor making his escape...with Maddie.

[nugnug]

now how did the abducter know there was children in the flat and how did they know the mcanns were out.

[tyler]

The Mccanns believe they had been being watched and their movements and routine noted,over the previous days.

[nugnug]

i see so this want an opertunist crime it had been planned.

[Patti]

So really,with all the activity from the tapas group between 9.30 and 10pm there wasn't much window of oppurtunity for any abductor.Unless,as GM says,the abductor may have already been in the apartment when he did his last check,and the guy JT allegedly saw,may have been the abductor making his escape...with Maddie.

I think they were watched going back and forth...the only people that knew this were those that worked at the restaurant like waiters, bar staff and those that worked in the reception area...Although on saying that anyone from an apartment that overlooked the restaurant would have noted their activities. Or anyone in am apartment that overlooked the side of the complex or from the front of the building....In all fairness you could eliminate any overlooking apartment from the front as they would not be able to see the side gate or view the patio doors....

I believe the abductor left via the front door because you did not need a key to open it from the inside, but you do need a key to open it from the outside....The only spare keys were kept in the reception area within the complex. 

Its so so complicated...yet, logic is that its so simple when you think about it....

The difficulty I had was that JT sees a man carrying a child towards Lagos..which is east...The Smith's see a similar man carrying a child in the south west of PDL. But when you ask yourself why would a man carrying an abducted child change directions....it become blatantly obvious why he changed his route....He was seen by JT.....like any criminal, they would go the opposite way in order to deceive the authorities come the time of the crime being reported.....They would look towards Lagos...or Murat's...

Surely this has to someone local...if he was seen again by the Smith family...This guy had no transport, otherwise he would have used it and have not risked being seen.....Local or holidaymaker? 

If this man was genuine and it was his child, then way after all this world wide publicity has he never come forward.? 

[Patti]

I don't think it was an opportunist at all...A paedophile watches his pray, then takes.  I feel awful for saying that, but this is how they work...There has been opportunists like Robert Black...he scored remote villages in his white van...