Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath

[Steve_uk]

Hi Steve

We can't compare gun crimes here in the UK, because we are not a gun nation. Most mentally ill people that kill there children use alternate methods, sad to say and, it is most rife........I would not compare with the USA....because that nation has guns coming out their ears. 

But the socio-economic policies of laissez-faire were similar Patti with Thatcherism and Reaganomics which as a consequence led to an increase in crime and hence the prison population. I just find it strange that there were not more mentally ill American women on the edge as Sheila undoubtedly was in March 1985 who took up firearms and in the process killed their children.

[lookout]

I think she said she thought the Devil had given them power to exercise evil over people,not nice admittedly but not quite what you said. That was in any case her first stay at St. Andrews' in Autumn 1983. By March 1985 she had more of a religious fervour and said positive things about the twins.

No doubt Jeremy had got wind of all of this and distorted the whole thing in his mind. It is indicative of how his brain was working that the idea to do away with his family and blame Sheila had taken hold by the Christmas of 1984,as corroborated indirectly by Charles Marsden and of course directly by Julie in her statement.

Steve,,,Jeremy didn't have a clue about Sheilas' illness at all,,,nor did the GP's know much either,,so very little information was passed on because of that reason.
Nor would I imagine that Jeremy would be very interested in all things medical when he had a demanding girlfriend and a farm to help with,,then his entertainment at weekends,etc. No siree.

[maggie]

There was no failed suicide attempt if that's what you're trying to allege. She did put her hand through glass,and whilst unpleasant and a sign that Sheila was ill it's more indicative of the self-harm which suicides as a whole are prone to.

I am not 'trying to allege' anything steve I just said there is a statement by a cousin, i think, who speaks about some time she spent with Sheila who spoke about suicide and scared her. Its too late tonight but will find it tomorrow.

[Steve_uk]

Sheila and the rest of the family were totally let down by the professionals. They were all left to get on with it best they could. I dont wonder June and Ralph were worn out by it all. They must have been worn out with worry sbout Sheila and the twins.

Yes maggie,and this is one of the reasons why they took their eye off the ball with Jeremy.

[Steve_uk]

Steve,,,Jeremy didn't have a clue about Sheilas' illness at all,,,nor did the GP's know much either,,so very little information was passed on because of that reason.
Nor would I imagine that Jeremy would be very interested in all things medical when he had a demanding girlfriend and a farm to help with,,then his entertainment at weekends,etc. No siree.

No I don't believe that at all lookout. Sheila's illness was the pretext Jeremy was looking for to do away with his family and gain his freedom. It may have crossed his mind briefly on occasions and each time he brought it up in front of Julie she told him not to talk about it. Unfortunately this only emboldened him and he began to devise a foolproof scheme as he described it to Julie whereby he would become the main beneficiary of his parents' estate.

[lookout]

Sheila and the rest of the family were totally let down by the professionals. They were all left to get on with it best they could. I dont wonder June and Ralph were worn out by it all. They must have been worn out with worry sbout Sheila and the twins.

Yes,Maggie,,they were all badly let down,,and those professionals who treated Sheila in various clinics/hospitals ought to be ashamed.
Well that day particularly,Maggie,,as all didn't appear too well with one thing and another.

[HMEssex]

Yes maggie,and this is one of the reasons why they took their eye off the ball with Jeremy.

Oh God!

Jeremy wasn't the problem, Sheila was.

'It' had been building up with Sheila all week.

Sheila had been going crazy all week: let down by Colin (notwithstanding he had to take her to the farm as she couldn't look after the twins by herself full-time;, running screaming from the monastery and scaring the hell out of the witness who hid; withdrawn whilst shopping etc; shouting at the electricity guy (wonder what happened to him - we need him on this thread!); not taking her correct dosage of medication, etc etc....poor girl she was a time-bomb waiting to go off.

[lookout]

No I don't believe that at all lookout. Sheila's illness was the pretext Jeremy was looking for to do away with his family and gain his freedom. It may have crossed his mind briefly on occasions and each time he brought it up in front of Julie she told him not to talk about it. Unfortunately this only emboldened him and he began to devise a foolproof scheme as he described it to Julie whereby he would become the main beneficiary of his parents' estate.

Do you know what Steve.? The more you come up with some of your own images of what took place,,the less I'm believing you,,even if you appeared to be correct. When some things are too good to be true,,,they usually are.

[Patti]

But the socio-economic policies of laissez-faire were similar Patti with Thatcherism and Reaganomics which as a consequence led to an increase in crime and hence the prison population. I just find it strange that there were not more mentally ill American women on the edge as Sheila undoubtedly was in March 1985 who took up firearms and in the process killed their children.

Nothing to do with politics Steve...its to do with an illness that you me and most of this Country is oblivious to....We are ignorant when it comes to the make up of schizophrenia and paranoia....psychotic episodes etc....We are not medically trained in this field, we can't really judge someone at the end of the day, yet we read about parents killing their children and families all the time.....

I honestly do not understand why people ignore this, because it is fact.....it has happened since to my knowledge, since the early 1800's and it will continue to happen if people ignore the signs of mental illness....

You see, when you are having an psychotic episode, you are not aware of what you are doing....your personality becomes divided.....you imagine things that are not real.....for goodness sake wake up and smell the coffee....

Jeremy had no mantel illness, he had not been in trouble with police, although some would love to believe it, but the fact is he wasn't......Anyone can see that the killings were done in a frenzy, by someone who had completely lost the plot....who taunted their victims....

So did Jeremy suddenly become a mentally ill, frenzied killer...Or did Shelia, bless her!! Or did some other lunatic pull the trigger.......its a guessing game and we might never know....So we are left with Jeremy did it, because he was found guilty in a court of law....so that is it! For some it is, for me I will continue to research this till I find the truth....And, I am sure that Jeremy did not do it...he couldn't do it he had no guts to do it...Oh yes, he was the arrogant sod and maybe still is....but that is part of his makeup, whether it be genetic or not....Phew! lol

[Steve_uk]

Oh God!

Jeremy wasn't the problem, Sheila was.

'It' had been building up with Sheila all week.

Sheila had been going crazy all week: let down by Colin (notwithstanding he had to take her to the farm as she couldn't look after the twins by herself full-time;, running screaming from the monastery and scaring the hell out of the witness who hid; withdrawn whilst shopping etc; shouting at the electricity guy (wonder what happened to him - we need him on this thread!); not taking her correct dosage of medication, etc etc....poor girl she was a time-bomb waiting to go off.

That's true HMEssex but Jeremy was observing all this from his vantage point and must not have been able to believe his luck. This was the opportunity he had been waiting for for months,this was the execution of the workings going on inside his head and which could finally be realized. He ran it by Julie in the first telephone call(the "tonight's the night..it's now or never call)and Julie being tired from work and probably not taking him seriously as he had in the past been a relentless practical joker did not slap him down the way she should have.

You can't possibly believe that there were two potential killers inside one house. When you look at the evidence of Sheila's well-manicured nails and appearance,her unfamiliarity with guns and her immaculate facial appearance along with just one fingerprint on the gun it's impossible that she did the deed.

[maggie]

Thought you were going to bed hours ago Patti. Tut tut..

[lookout]

Steve,,are you sure you're not writing a book and putting in your own version of events.?
It's good mind you,,but not necessarily correct.

[Steve_uk]

Nothing to do with politics Steve...its to do with an illness that you me and most of this Country is oblivious to....We are ignorant when it comes to the make up of schizophrenia and paranoia....psychotic episodes etc....We are not medically trained in this field, we can't really judge someone at the end of the day, yet we read about parents killing their children and families all the time.....

I honestly do not understand why people ignore this, because it is fact.....it has happened since to my knowledge, since the early 1800's and it will continue to happen if people ignore the signs of mental illness....

You see, when you are having an psychotic episode, you are not aware of what you are doing....your personality becomes divided.....you imagine things that are not real.....for goodness sake wake up and smell the coffee....

Jeremy had no mantel illness, he had not been in trouble with police, although some would love to believe it, but the fact is he wasn't......Anyone can see that the killings were done in a frenzy, by someone who had completely lost the plot....who taunted their victims....

So did Jeremy suddenly become a mentally ill, frenzied killer...Or did Shelia, bless her!! Or did some other lunatic pull the trigger.......its a guessing game and we might never know....So we are left with Jeremy did it, because he was found guilty in a court of law....so that is it! For some it is, for me I will continue to research this till I find the truth....And, I am sure that Jeremy did not do it...he couldn't do it he had no guts to do it...Oh yes, he was the arrogant sod and maybe still is....but that is part of his makeup, whether it be genetic or not....Phew! lol

He probably did it with the lights off Patti..he wasn't up to identifying the bodies..the hard work had been done which was why his tongue was rather looser than it should have been that first morning at Goldhanger.

Of course when he was considered a suspect he clammed up altogether.

[Patti]

Thought you eere going to bed hours ago Patti. Tut tut..

You said good night first...lol I like it here..Ha! I never sleep well on Sunday night anyway and, I'm not looking forward to tomorrow...or the rest of the week.   

[Patti]

He probably did it with the lights off Patti..he wasn't up to identifying the bodies..the hard work had been done which was why his tongue was rather looser than it should have been that first morning at Goldhanger.

Of course when he was considered a suspect he clammed up altogether.

So who put the lights on??