Author Topic: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?  (Read 51683 times)

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Offline killingeve

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2012, 06:30:PM »
Jeremy's first plan was to burn the house down,which was no financial loss in itself as it was tenanted by the Bambers but owned by the Henry Smith Trust. However as greed was the main motive for the murders(as it had been when he burgled the jewellers shop in New Zealand and the Osea Road Caravan Park)he realized that in case of fire valuable antiques would be destoyed including a Meissen clock and other family heirlooms. The remark that Jeremy cared for farming in the slightest was a complete joke,the reality being that Nevill's will tied Jeremy to the farm until his death,and as Jeremy told Julie when she asked him why he didn't just walk away:"Because I have got too much to lose".

So we have a situation whereby Jeremy is looking for an occasion when all five family members would be under the same roof,and this occurred at the Christmas of 1984,though Jeremy copped out,possibly through the feelings of the general Christmas spirit which may have permeated even Jeremy's godless existence. It is probable that he came to regret this missed opportunity as the desire to do away with his family becomes stronger as his avarice is heightened due to his constant living beyond his means,trying to impress at every social function as often nonentities like Jeremy do,and he witnesses the failing health of Nevill,June retreating into her despairing shell,Sheila teetering on the brink of destruction,guilty of omission in her sons' upbringing, and the sombre drawings of the twins on the mahogany table in the lounge at White House farm give him the raison d'etre he needs to exculpate himself morally-that he will be doing them all a favour really as they are all disturbed and frail and their deaths would be a mercy.

Jeremy's one strong point at Gresham's was arithmetic,inherited from his biological father Major Leslie Marsham who had a job in the field,and he realized that with school fees for the boys and psychiatric care for Sheila and possibly June in the offing which would eat into his inheritance he would cut and run and with the opportunity in the first week in August presenting itself Jeremy ventured to execute his evil plan.

The £436,000 inheritance was a net figure after all death duties had been paid. Jeremy had also inherited a flat in a fashionable area of London as a direct result of the killings,and finally had the trappings of success which allowed him to leave farming behind, and move him up the social scale,affording him the kind of life to which he had always aspired,yet which inadvertently his parents had always thwarted.

Hi Steve_uk

If Jeremy didn't care for farming, to the point that you claim it was a joke, why did he take on farming jobs whilst exploring the Antipodes?  Why not work in bars etc?  Also why did Jeremy discuss with Andy Bishop, after the tragedy, the possibility of buying a farm?

Had there have been a fire at WHF the valuables were covered by insurance although I do believe the contents were underinsured.  Jeremy had no interest in family heirlooms as is common with many people myself included adopted or not.  They were sold to meet the inheritance tax liability. So had WHF burnt to the ground the insurance would have paid out and saved Jeremy the job of disposing of the heirlooms and fees payable to the likes of Sotheby's.  Goldhanger was said to be utilitarian.

What has Nevill's health, June despairing and Sheila teetering on the brink of destruction got to do with Jeremy?  What exactly was wrong with Nevill?  There's no evidence of him visiting his gp for any physical or mental issue.  In one breath you would have us believe he was a powerful, fit man and impossible for a psychotic Sheila to overpower and in another that he's an elderly and frail man.  Which is it?

There's no evidence whatsoever that Jeremy was living beyond his means.  EP checked his bank stats etc and at any given time his balances ranged from 1k to several k in credit.  Unlike Sheila who according to Sandra Elston had perennial money worries.  Sheila also borrowed money off Freddie and repeatedly phoned Nevill in a panic for cash.

Again there's no evidence whatsover that Nevill and June were planning on financing private ed for the twins.  In any event would Colin have agreed?

I believe the value of the estate 436k is gross.  Agricultural land is exempt from inheritance tax.  The value of OCS, Maldon Growers and N & J Bamber Ltd may also have been exempt dependent on how the businesses were set up.  I would have thought the value of the property in Guildford was at least 200k given that 100k was borrowed to renovate.  Although this was only 50% owned by the Bambers (25% share transferred to each of Anthony Pargeter and Jackie Wood).  The cottage at Goldhanger was probably worth  circa 30k and the Maida Vale flat circa 70k.  Chattels, personal vehicles, cash, shares etc say another 50k.  On this basis the estate was liable to inheritance tax of 73k before probate could be granted.  However, it could well have been much more had the businesses have been liable for inheritance tax.  Where was Jeremy to find the cash?  Nevill had taken out a loan to fund the renovations at Guildford so there was unlikely to be much spare cash hanging around.  Did the relatives offer temporary assistance  ;)

Surely you must see that your theories simply do not add up and support the innocent camp's belief  that Jeremy's conviction was based on little more than a modern-day witch-hunt?

Offline Jane

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2012, 08:12:PM »
NaNu, I believe we have a situation in which Steve is so entrenched in his own belief in Jeremy's guilt, that should the day EVER dawn that he is released, Steve will be there to prevent it happening. You sound as if you have studied this case enough to realise that much of what Steve presents as facts are gleaned from books and probably further embroidered in his own mind to add weight to his more spurious ideas.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2012, 09:44:PM »
Hi Steve_uk

If Jeremy didn't care for farming, to the point that you claim it was a joke, why did he take on farming jobs whilst exploring the Antipodes?  Why not work in bars etc?  Also why did Jeremy discuss with Andy Bishop, after the tragedy, the possibility of buying a farm?

Had there have been a fire at WHF the valuables were covered by insurance although I do believe the contents were underinsured.  Jeremy had no interest in family heirlooms as is common with many people myself included adopted or not.  They were sold to meet the inheritance tax liability. So had WHF burnt to the ground the insurance would have paid out and saved Jeremy the job of disposing of the heirlooms and fees payable to the likes of Sotheby's.  Goldhanger was said to be utilitarian.

What has Nevill's health, June despairing and Sheila teetering on the brink of destruction got to do with Jeremy?  What exactly was wrong with Nevill?  There's no evidence of him visiting his gp for any physical or mental issue.  In one breath you would have us believe he was a powerful, fit man and impossible for a psychotic Sheila to overpower and in another that he's an elderly and frail man.  Which is it?

There's no evidence whatsoever that Jeremy was living beyond his means.  EP checked his bank stats etc and at any given time his balances ranged from 1k to several k in credit.  Unlike Sheila who according to Sandra Elston had perennial money worries.  Sheila also borrowed money off Freddie and repeatedly phoned Nevill in a panic for cash.

Again there's no evidence whatsover that Nevill and June were planning on financing private ed for the twins.  In any event would Colin have agreed?

I believe the value of the estate 436k is gross.  Agricultural land is exempt from inheritance tax.  The value of OCS, Maldon Growers and N & J Bamber Ltd may also have been exempt dependent on how the businesses were set up.  I would have thought the value of the property in Guildford was at least 200k given that 100k was borrowed to renovate.  Although this was only 50% owned by the Bambers (25% share transferred to each of Anthony Pargeter and Jackie Wood).  The cottage at Goldhanger was probably worth  circa 30k and the Maida Vale flat circa 70k.  Chattels, personal vehicles, cash, shares etc say another 50k.  On this basis the estate was liable to inheritance tax of 73k before probate could be granted.  However, it could well have been much more had the businesses have been liable for inheritance tax.  Where was Jeremy to find the cash?  Nevill had taken out a loan to fund the renovations at Guildford so there was unlikely to be much spare cash hanging around.  Did the relatives offer temporary assistance  ;)

Surely you must see that your theories simply do not add up and support the innocent camp's belief  that Jeremy's conviction was based on little more than a modern-day witch-hunt?

I always try to be fair and balanced in my comments,but tonight I will make an exception. The comments contained in your six paragraphs are complete rubbish:

1)Jeremy might have stayed at the farm of a distant relative of Nevill's in New Zealand but his heart was not in farming work,but on a deep sea diving course,in which he did not excel. The medical necessary for completion of the course was not passed to my knowledge due to pressure in Jeremy's head caused when June dropped him as a baby. That actually raises more food for thought,but since I'm often accused of bias against Jeremy I will remain tight-lipped. As for Jeremy's plans after the murders,well he was waiting on tenterhooks at Maida Vale for Anji Greaves to telephone and couldn't think much further than a physical encounter with her,but I believe a wine bar in Dorset was mentioned which I could in fairness see Jeremy running rather like Tom Cruise in the film "Cocktail".

2) As you say the house contents were underinsured so you've answered your own point there. Why destroy valuable antiques when you can shoot five residents with a gun and then plunder the house accordingly?

3)The state of the five individuals whom Jeremy shot dead was his justification inside his own head for carrying out the murders,at least offering Julie a humanitarian side to his character as he still wanted to keep her sweet after the murders. Jeremy had had limited experience of women beyond the physical and was no match for Julie on the intellectual front. Nevill was off sick from the magistrates job with stress and was doing more than his fair share of the labour at the farm as Jeremy was averse to getting his hands dirty and would not work overtime. June had retreated into her own world that last year,trying to look on the bright side,but as Barbara Wilson noticed she would often end up in floods of tears. Sheila was on the edge of another breakdown,though may have been stabilized with a repeat injection and more Electroconvulsive treatment,which alleviated the symptoms of schizophrenia but made her drowsy,vacant and suffer from short-term memory loss. The twins' thoughts were more transparent as with their artistic bent inherited from their father they made known their angst at the farm in their sombre drawings,one perusal of which by Jeremy would be the justification that they too would be better off out of this world with the adults,and Colin would be able to look for regular work and start life afresh.

4)Jeremy was living well beyond his means,which is the main reason why he burgled the Osea Park Caravan site from where he stole £800. He had bought carpets and curtains for Goldhanger,along with a new stereo system and sunbed,causing Nevill to remark that he "hoped Jeremy has a kind bank manager",possibly not realizing that he was using the latter to dry out cannabis which he would flog to all and sundry at pubs and clubs,to fund his lavish spending in bars and restaurants to impress the ladies who frequented them.

5)Of course there is no way one knows for sure whether Nevill and June were planning on financing private education for their grandsons,but is it really beyond the realms of possibility that they were doing so? Colin may or may not have agreed,but had he been consulted he may well have acquiesced in sending them to a local private day school in London where they would have received a head start and allowed Colin more leeway to find work and see them in the evenings. As the children grew older there was a risk that they could have replaced Jeremy in the affections of his parents which Jeremy was not going to allow to happen.

6) Jeremy was set to inherit £436,000 net at 1985 prices,which I'm guessing would be over £2 million today. Unshackled from the tenancy of White House Farm,which he did not even desire to enter after the murders,let alone take charge of,he would temporarily ensconce himself at a flat in a fashionable area of London,which he had inherited as a direct result of Sheila's death. Why wait for the passage of time which could only eat into his inheritance when he could inherit the lion's share of both his adoptive parents' estate should they die at the same time? There would then be no need for concern should June decide to leave money to the church or Jeremy's nephews;he would nip it in the bud and remain the sole beneficiary.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2012, 09:49:PM by Steve_uk »

Caroline R

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2012, 10:45:PM »
I always try to be fair and balanced in my comments,but tonight I will make an exception. The comments contained in your six paragraphs are complete rubbish:

1)Jeremy might have stayed at the farm of a distant relative of Nevill's in New Zealand but his heart was not in farming work,but on a deep sea diving course,in which he did not excel. The medical necessary for completion of the course was not passed to my knowledge due to pressure in Jeremy's head caused when June dropped him as a baby. That actually raises more food for thought,but since I'm often accused of bias against Jeremy I will remain tight-lipped. As for Jeremy's plans after the murders,well he was waiting on tenterhooks at Maida Vale for Anji Greaves to telephone and couldn't think much further than a physical encounter with her,but I believe a wine bar in Dorset was mentioned which I could in fairness see Jeremy running rather like Tom Cruise in the film "Cocktail".

2) As you say the house contents were underinsured so you've answered your own point there. Why destroy valuable antiques when you can shoot five residents with a gun and then plunder the house accordingly?

3)The state of the five individuals whom Jeremy shot dead was his justification inside his own head for carrying out the murders,at least offering Julie a humanitarian side to his character as he still wanted to keep her sweet after the murders. Jeremy had had limited experience of women beyond the physical and was no match for Julie on the intellectual front. Nevill was off sick from the magistrates job with stress and was doing more than his fair share of the labour at the farm as Jeremy was averse to getting his hands dirty and would not work overtime. June had retreated into her own world that last year,trying to look on the bright side,but as Barbara Wilson noticed she would often end up in floods of tears. Sheila was on the edge of another breakdown,though may have been stabilized with a repeat injection and more Electroconvulsive treatment,which alleviated the symptoms of schizophrenia but made her drowsy,vacant and suffer from short-term memory loss. The twins' thoughts were more transparent as with their artistic bent inherited from their father they made known their angst at the farm in their sombre drawings,one perusal of which by Jeremy would be the justification that they too would be better off out of this world with the adults,and Colin would be able to look for regular work and start life afresh.

4)Jeremy was living well beyond his means,which is the main reason why he burgled the Osea Park Caravan site from where he stole £800. He had bought carpets and curtains for Goldhanger,along with a new stereo system and sunbed,causing Nevill to remark that he "hoped Jeremy has a kind bank manager",possibly not realizing that he was using the latter to dry out cannabis which he would flog to all and sundry at pubs and clubs,to fund his lavish spending in bars and restaurants to impress the ladies who frequented them.

5)Of course there is no way one knows for sure whether Nevill and June were planning on financing private education for their grandsons,but is it really beyond the realms of possibility that they were doing so? Colin may or may not have agreed,but had he been consulted he may well have acquiesced in sending them to a local private day school in London where they would have received a head start and allowed Colin more leeway to find work and see them in the evenings. As the children grew older there was a risk that they could have replaced Jeremy in the affections of his parents which Jeremy was not going to allow to happen.

6) Jeremy was set to inherit £436,000 net at 1985 prices,which I'm guessing would be over £2 million today. Unshackled from the tenancy of White House Farm,which he did not even desire to enter after the murders,let alone take charge of,he would temporarily ensconce himself at a flat in a fashionable area of London,which he had inherited as a direct result of Sheila's death. Why wait for the passage of time which could only eat into his inheritance when he could inherit the lion's share of both his adoptive parents' estate should they die at the same time? There would then be no need for concern should June decide to leave money to the church or Jeremy's nephews;he would nip it in the bud and remain the sole beneficiary.

I think it's more than a little rich calling NN's post 'rubbish' when you have just replied with sheer substantiated fiction!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2012, 10:48:PM »
I think it's more than a little rich calling NN's post 'rubbish' when you have just replied with sheer substantiated fiction!

I was in a bad mood,and anyway it's littered with inaccuracies.

Caroline R

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2012, 10:59:PM »
I was in a bad mood,and anyway it's littered with inaccuracies.

Which is why I called it fiction!

Offline susan

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2012, 09:24:AM »
Morning Caroline

Has steve admitted at last his posts are littered with inaccuracies.  Maybe when he is in a good mood he will regret admitting to that :) :) :)

Offline Jane

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2012, 09:31:AM »
Morning Caroline

Has steve admitted at last his posts are littered with inaccuracies.  Maybe when he is in a good mood he will regret admitting to that :) :) :)



Good morning, my friend. I read through Steve's post last night and frankly, deemed it such rubbish that had I responded I may/PROBABLY have been quite rude. ;D ;D ;D

Offline susan

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2012, 09:36:AM »
Morning april  I am so glad to hear you were not rude to steve when he was in a bad mood that would have been the last straw :) :) :)

Offline Jane

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #54 on: December 09, 2012, 09:48:AM »
Morning april  I am so glad to hear you were not rude to steve when he was in a bad mood that would have been the last straw :) :) :)


It would, indeed, Susan. He claims to "always try to be fair and balanced", something at which, IMCO, he rarely achieves, but it would be neither fair nor balanced of me to suggest that he is ever rude........................except when he's describing Jeremy ;D

Offline lookout

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2012, 10:41:AM »
I was in a bad mood,and anyway it's littered with inaccuracies.


Oh goodness,Steve,,you must have had a really bad day to put you,,of all people,,,in a bad mood. Hope you're alright today hun.

Lugg

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2012, 10:53:AM »

Oh goodness,Steve,,you must have had a really bad day to put you,,of all people,,,in a bad mood. Hope you're alright today hun.
Dunno why? School's out til Monday.

Offline lookout

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2012, 11:00:AM »
Dunno why? School's out til Monday.


Is Steve a teacher,Lugg.?

Offline susan

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2012, 11:02:AM »
Morning Lugg you are forgetting steve referred to the post which I would have thought he meant his own as full of inaccuracies and that is what put him in a bad mood  :) :) :)

Offline susan

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Re: Did Brett Collins stand by Jeremy?
« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2012, 11:04:AM »
Morning lookout  Hope not :) :) :)