Pathologist concluded that Sheila's body, consistent with known facts of call...

[maggie]

Oh I see what you mean April...I thought you meant me more unconscious than dead, thought you were being funny but no it's me again, I've lost my ability to think.  I'd better be quiet

[lookout]

No they wouldn't, all that happens is the muscles first relax and then rigor sets in. Anyway, what do you think this brownish mark to the side of her face is, she's a bit young for liver spots isn't she?

Could be a bruise,Bridget.

[Bridget]

Could be a bruise,Bridget.

And Venezis didn't notice, or just forgot to write it in his notes?

[lookout]

And Venezis didn't notice, or just forgot to write it in his notes?

Even if it had been a birthmark of some sort,it should automatically have been recorded.But it looks more like a fading bruise to me.

[maggie]

Even if it had been a birthmark of some sort,it should automatically have been recorded.But it looks more like a fading bruise to me.

Yes, it's noticeable in the smaller photo's as well and it does look like a bruise.

[Caroline R]

How long would you say that it takes for the blood to drain Maggie? It must start pretty much straight away.

Yes, it does start as soon as the heart stops, lividity is visible after one or two hours after death, it takes around six hours to complete and becomes fixed after about 12 hours.

[mike tesko]

One thing which everyone overlooked, including the prosecution, is that the pathologist did not/ does not estimate time of death in Sheila's case, before or prior to Jeremy making his call to police...

This is evidence which the defence at the original trial should have sought to drum into the minds of the jury...

[mike tesko]

One thing which everyone overlooked, including the prosecution, is that the pathologist did not/ does not estimate time of death in Sheila's case, before or prior to Jeremy making his call to police...

This is evidence which the defence at the original trial should have sought to drum into the minds of the jury...

Since, the time of Jeremys call to police was at 3:36am, Sheila must have died after this time, otherwise the pathologist would surely have said so...

[mike tesko]

Since, the time of Jeremys call to police was at 3:36am, Sheila must have died after this time, otherwise the pathologist would surely have said so...

But he didn't, so she didn't die before 3:36am...

[mike tesko]

Pathologist did not see Sheila's body until 3:30pm, that same afternoon, on the day police found her body at 7:37am - 8:10am...

[mike tesko]

Pathologist did not see Sheila's body until 3:30pm, that same afternoon, on the day police found her body at 7:37am - 8:10am...

If we say police did not find Sheila's body until 8am, then pathologist did not see Sheila Caffells body until seven and a half hours afterwards, by which stage all the blood on her body and clothing had dried and coagulated...

Pathologist did not see photographs of Sheila with blood running from her neck and the corners of her mouth...

[Bridget]

But he didn't, so she didn't die before 3:36am...

He didn't give a time of death at all, before or after 3.36 or whatever.

[mike tesko]

He didn't give a time of death at all, before or after 3.36 or whatever.

Exactly, so there is no pathological evidence to support the case for Sheila having died before Jeremy's call to the police at 3:36am - and that is an indisputable fact...

I do not believe the convictions are safe, for this reason alone...

[mike tesko]

Exactly, so there is no pathological evidence to support the case for Sheila having died before Jeremy's call to the police at 3:36am - and that is an indisputable fact...

I do not believe the convictions are safe, for this reason alone...

Lets get the facts right - there is no pathological evidence of any sort to show or indicate that Sheila had died prior to Jeremys call to the police, no pathological evidence to prove Sheila had died prior to the arrival of the occupants of CA07 at the scene at 3:48am, nor before the recce into the grounds of whf by PS Bews, PC Myall and Jeremy at around 4am, or before PS Bews summoned the TFG to the scene at 4:02am, or thier arrival at the scene at 5am, or before Jeremy was taken away from the scene to make a telephone call to Julie Mugford, or before the arrival at the scene at 7am of the second TFG, or at the time the raid team forced entry into the farmhouse at 7:37am, at which time they reportedly found two bodies...

[mike tesko]

Because there is no time of death, the convictions are unsafe, since there is no evidence that Sheila had died prior to the occasion when Jeremy met up with the police (CA07) at the scene (whf) at 3:52am...

For this reason alone, this case and these convictions need to be sent back to the appeal court, because there is at least a 50% chance that Sheila did not die until long after Jeremy arrived at the scene and was in company of the police, thus having the perfect alibi...