PV's Bullet Weights, Fletcher and Vanezes

[JackAll]

At close quarters carrying out a multi-killing I would imagine bullets would be flying everywhere; some through panic, others through inexperience of CQB....

.......an experienced cleaner would have used a pistol and gone for the old tap-tap.....10 shots, job done.

[grahameb]

At close quarters carrying out a multi-killing I would imagine bullets would be flying everywhere; some through panic, others through inexperience of CQB....

.......an experienced cleaner would have used a pistol and gone for the old tap-tap.....10 shots, job done.

Methinks that a professional hit-man would need to have a lot of faith to go in with a .22 rifle?

[gringo]

Ignore me I am working out the bullets from the fragments....lol

Hi Patti , I think their is some significance in the fact that of the bullets bearing Hammersley's initials , 4 out of 5 of them are heavier than the manufacturers specifications ( Eley subsonic ) .
    The weight of these bullets should be 2.26 grams . Bullet exhibits DRH 5 , 15 , 35 and 36 are all significantly over this weight . The only bullet bearing Hammersley's initials which is under weight is described as near whole .
    It is either an inexplicable coincidence that Hammersley found only the unfeasibly large eley ammunition or it could be that bullets were substituted and those finally presented to the court were not the same bullets . Perhaps the ammunition presented came from one of the unofficial "test firing " of the Anshutz .
   This is why there are examination records which compare " bullets from the scene ? " against test firings of the Anshutz before it was test fired .
   It would be interesting to weigh those bullets now and see if the weights are the same but unfortunately the police destroyed them all in 1996 . (wonder why ? )
   Despite this , there are somehow 14 crime scene spent cartridge cases bearing the exhibit number MDF100 still held at the lab in Huntingdon .
   Some very strange things went on with the ballistics evidence and Hammersley plays a significant part in it .
   

[JackAll]

Methinks that a professiomnal hit-man would need to have a lot of faith to go in with a .22 rifle?

Pistol, low velocity .22 hollowpoint or fragmenting rounds (so that there is no exit wound) and all the spent cases picked up..............so a revolver type pistol which don't discharge spent cases and a speed loader (say, an 8 shot Ruger, which would mean 16 shots with only one re-load)

[grahameb]

Pistol, low velocity .22 hollowpoint or fragmenting rounds (so that there is no exit wound) and all the spent cases picked up..............so a revolver type pistol which don't discharge spent cases and a speed loader (say, an 8 shot Ruger, which would mean 16 shots with only one re-load)

So Jack in your opinion would you say that the person who used that .22 rifle was someone without the knowledge of guns, or had little knowledge was to what kind of gun to use?

[JackAll]

So Jack in your opinion would you say that the person who used that .22 rifle was someone without the knowledge of guns, or had little knowledge was to what kind of gun to use?

IMO Grahame, the shooter (s) were probably people that were used to 'farm' type shooting; ie not professionals used to handling firearms other than what they had in the gun cupboard because they were farmers of sorts......(farmers tend to have the obligatory shotguns and .22 rifles becasue they are farmers and because they can......a status thing, I guess)....

EG, I know many people who are very good at clay pigeon shooting with a shotgun, but give them a rifle and they are cr*p.

I have watched many driven shoots on farmland where the nobs and businessmen get to spend the day standing in a line with shotguns blazing away at pheasants..............half of them being p*ssed; and most of them a liablity with a gun in their hands......

[grahameb]

IMO Grahame, the shooter (s) were probably people that were used to 'farm' type shooting; ie not professionals used to handling firearms other than what they had in the gun cupboard because they were farmers of sorts......(farmers tend to have the obligatory shotguns and .22 rifles becasue they are farmers and because they can......a status thing, I guess)....

EG, I know many people who are very good at clay pigeon shooting with a shotgun, but give them a rifle and they are cr*p.

I have watched many driven shoots on farmland where the nobs and businessmen get to spend the day standing in a line with shotguns blazing away at pheasants..............half of them being p*ssed; and most of them a liablity with a gun in their hands......

I can understand that thought. I had a friend who used to be employed as a beater at Great Braxted Hall.

[gringo]

I think that in all likelihood, you are more than a little mistaken with some of your conclusions.

I'd suggest that the pathologist was quite able to tell the difference between being shot 8 times as opposed to being shot 5 times. Even if he was unable to distinguish particular bullet fragments, I'd expect him to be fully capable of identifying individual wounds, if he was unable to do so, he would have stated that he was unable to do so.

There is a reason why some bullets are heavier than the figures given by Mike for a whole bullet, the simplest conclusion would be that Mikes figures are innaccurate.

The figures used come from examination records so a more likely explanation would be that crime scene ammo was substituted .
    The heavier bullets are too heavy to have come from the batch of eley ammunition and as noted earlier , all bear Hammersley's initials . It is a remarkable coincidence and rather more suggestive of EP manipulating evidence than Mikes figures being inaccurate . The weights given are not "Mike's figures" anyway they are EP's .

[Patti]

Hi Patti , I think their is some significance in the fact that of the bullets bearing Hammersley's initials , 4 out of 5 of them are heavier than the manufacturers specifications ( Eley subsonic ) .
    The weight of these bullets should be 2.26 grams . Bullet exhibits DRH 5 , 15 , 35 and 36 are all significantly over this weight . The only bullet bearing Hammersley's initials which is under weight is described as near whole .
    It is either an inexplicable coincidence that Hammersley found only the unfeasibly large eley ammunition or it could be that bullets were substituted and those finally presented to the court were not the same bullets . Perhaps the ammunition presented came from one of the unofficial "test firing " of the Anshutz .
   This is why there are examination records which compare " bullets from the scene ? " against test firings of the Anshutz before it was test fired .
   It would be interesting to weigh those bullets now and see if the weights are the same but unfortunately the police destroyed them all in 1996 . (wonder why ? )
   Despite this , there are somehow 14 crime scene spent cartridge cases bearing the exhibit number MDF100 still held at the lab in Huntingdon .
   Some very strange things went on with the ballistics evidence and Hammersley plays a significant part in it .
 

Hi Gringo

I think the weight of the bullets were a little bit heavier than that. I know the actual weight has been posted on the forum.  I will find this out.....

I think the ballistics should be looked at again in all fairness....I'll get back to you....

[gringo]

Hi Gringo

I think the weight of the bullets were a little bit heavier than that. I know the actual weight has been posted on the forum.  I will find this out.....

I think the ballistics should be looked at again in all fairness....I'll get back to you....

Hi Patti , just checked the weights .
      Eley manufacturers specified weight for .22LR subsonic hollow point is 2.26 grams , from Hunter's book , but I think it is posted elsewhere as you say .
     The bullets bearing Hammersley's initials on exhibit numbers weigh 2.44 , 2.43 , 2.42 , 2.42 and the fifth , described as near whole , weighed 1.67 grams .
     There are many anomalies in the ballistics which are indicative of deceit . 

           

[Patti]

Hi Patti , just checked the weights .
      Eley manufacturers specified weight for .22LR subsonic hollow point is 2.26 grams , from Hunter's book , but I think it is posted elsewhere as you say .
     The bullets bearing Hammersley's initials on exhibit numbers weigh 2.44 , 2.43 , 2.42 , 2.42 and the fifth , described as near whole , weighed 1.67 grams .
     There are many anomalies in the ballistics which are indicative of deceit . 

         

OK, so what is the weight of the high velocity bullets?  Thank you Gringoooooooooooooooo X

[grahameb]

OK, so what is the weight of the high velocity bullets?  Thank you Gringoooooooooooooooo X

Well when I was shot with one it felt like the weight of a horse.

[HMEssex]

Well when I was shot with one it felt like the weight of a horse.

Tell us more!

[gringo]

OK, so what is the weight of the high velocity bullets?  Thank you Gringoooooooooooooooo X

Sorry Patti which high velocity bullets do you mean ? Am I being thick ? 

[grahameb]

Tell us more!

I lived in a rough area. I was shot in the top of my left arm. It didn't 'alf smart.