Author Topic: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-  (Read 7945 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2012, 08:11:PM »
Here is the relevant page of Vanezis report:



Could you please Knight's report please?

I will try to find the relevant extracts from Professor Knights testimony which differs vastly from what Venezis said...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline lookout

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2012, 08:12:PM »
Came later than what? You were talking about her first wound, which lacerated her jugular.

No I wasn't. I said her first wound was a flesh wound.The jugular appeared much later.

Offline Bridget

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2012, 08:12:PM »
No I wasn't. I said her first wound was a flesh wound.The jugular appeared much later.

No it didn't.
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Offline Bridget

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2012, 08:13:PM »
I will try to find the relevant extracts from Professor Knights testimony which differs vastly from what Venezis said...

Thank you.
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline lookout

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2012, 08:21:PM »
No it didn't.

Gawd,this is exactly what happens when no time of death is reported/recorded. Everything's then done by guesswork.
 What's the matter with the police and their investigations.?
 At that massacre in France,French police didn't even see that little 4 year old child until 8 hours later. What goes on.?

Offline maggie

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #65 on: September 08, 2012, 08:21:PM »
No it didn't.
Well i was wrong but I didnt think there was enough blood for the jugular to be lacerated...where did the blood go?

Offline Bridget

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #66 on: September 08, 2012, 08:26:PM »
Well i was wrong but I didnt think there was enough blood for the jugular to be lacerated...where did the blood go?

The second shot was seconds after the first and intantaneously fatal, so there wasn't much.
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline lookout

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #67 on: September 08, 2012, 08:26:PM »
Well i was wrong but I didnt think there was enough blood for the jugular to be lacerated...where did the blood go?

More than likely on the rugs/carpets that were burned I should imagine,Maggie.

Offline Bridget

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #68 on: September 08, 2012, 08:27:PM »
Gawd,this is exactly what happens when no time of death is reported/recorded. Everything's then done by guesswork.
 What's the matter with the police and their investigations.?
 At that massacre in France,French police didn't even see that little 4 year old child until 8 hours later. What goes on.?

It's nothing to do with guesswork - the first shot to Sheila lacerated her jugular, fact.
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline Jane

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2012, 08:30:PM »
It's nothing to do with guesswork - the first shot to Sheila lacerated her jugular, fact.


According to Venezis, but doesn't Knights disagree or at least, not fully concur?

Offline Roch

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2012, 08:33:PM »
If the first shot lacerated her jugular, where did all the blood go?  I mean where is all the blood that should be in the bedroom, from the lacerated jugular?

Offline Bridget

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #71 on: September 08, 2012, 08:37:PM »

According to Venezis, but doesn't Knights disagree or at least, not fully concur?

I don't know what Knight's evidence was, Mike hasn't posted his report yet. There's certainly no mention of a difference of opinion with regards the laceration of the jugular vein, although they may have disagreed over what she would have been capable of after the injury. I don't buy the plug / healing theory, but I'm not a pathologist so I'd like to see what Knight had to say. All I can find online about his evidence is some testimony he gave at trial with regards parental killings and ritual cleansing. There is a brief summary of his evidence in the 2002 appeal:

91. Professor Knight, another defence witness, lent support to Dr Bradley's evidence as to the feature of excessive violence in parental killings. He also spoke of instances where the murderer (having killed their spouses in most cases) has then gone about some mundane or "ritualistic" task, such as cleaning up before committing suicide. In cross-examination he accepted the proposition contained in an article, which he himself had written some years earlier, that "women almost never commit suicide by shooting".
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 08:42:PM by Bridget »
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Offline Bridget

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #72 on: September 08, 2012, 08:40:PM »
If the first shot lacerated her jugular, where did all the blood go?  I mean where is all the blood that should be in the bedroom, from the lacerated jugular?

The second shot was seconds after the first and intantaneously fatal, so there wasn't much.
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline Roch

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #73 on: September 08, 2012, 08:45:PM »
The second shot was seconds after the first and intantaneously fatal, so there wasn't much.

So for some reason, far much more blood exited from the second fatal shot than did from the initial non-fatal shot, which allegedly preceeded it by a few seconds?  Upon close inspection of the crime scene photo,  the initial non-fatal shot doesn't look like it occured only a few seconds before the other shot to me.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 08:46:PM by Roch »

Offline Patti

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Re: PS Saxby - the unanswered question:-
« Reply #74 on: September 08, 2012, 08:47:PM »
90. Dr Bradley, another Consultant Psychiatrist, was also called by the defence during the trial to give general evidence of the features of "altruistic" killings and to confirm that it was not unusual that a female murderer should not have a history of previous violence. He also gave evidence that where parents kill children there may be an element of "over-kill" or the infliction of excessive violence.

91. Professor Knight, another defence witness, lent support to Dr Bradley's evidence as to the feature of excessive violence in parental killings. He also spoke of instances where the murderer (having killed their spouses in most cases) has then gone about some mundane or "ritualistic" task, such as cleaning up before committing suicide. In cross-examination he accepted the proposition contained in an article, which he himself had written some years earlier, that "women almost never commit suicide by shooting".

92. A number of other witnesses were called on the appellant's behalf at trial as to Sheila Caffell's mind. They included Farhad Emami (Freddie), a friend who gave evidence as to her mental state before the second admission to hospital, her relationship with her parents and her mood and appearance in the months before her death.

93. Also called on the appellant's behalf were Miss Grimster who had seen Miss Caffell on 30 March 1985. The deceased said she saw herself as a white witch and said she had once contemplated suicide. Nurse Heath from the Nottingham Hospital spoke of her low mood on one occasion and of a more optimistic one on another. Sandra Elston who saw Sheila Caffell on 31 July 1985 said the deceased appeared well and her only concern was about a poor haircut she had recently had.