Dr. Ian Donaldson Craig 12-11-86

[mike tesko]

Mike, would you be prepared to detail your own theory, from what you now suspect, in a similar format to this?:

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/what-really-happened

A numbered step by step account (of mainly the raid).  Inclusive of the alleged mishandling of the rifle / informatives on site.

Perhaps this diagram might help:-

[Nickos]

This suggests in the clearest possible terms that Craig knew a second wound was inflicted later.

This is a point I tried to cover earlier (post #18).

If Craig had certified SC as dead at the stage he saw one wound, then the implication is that SC died of that wound. A second shot inflicted later could not have killed her again!

Is your theory that at the time Craig "certified death" SC was in fact still alive - so effectively Craig was a useless doctor, as he could not tell whether a person was dead or not? 

The point (to me is) could the one wound, witnessed by Craig, could still have been administered by JB?

[maggie]

This is a point I tried to cover earlier (post #18).

If Craig had certified SC as dead at the stage he saw one wound, then the implication is that SC died of that wound. A second shot inflicted later could not have killed her again!

Is your theory that at the time Craig "certified death" SC was in fact still alive - so effectively Craig was a useless doctor, as he could not tell whether a person was dead or not? 

The point (to me is) could the one wound, witnessed by Craig, could still have been administered by JB?

I still wonder, if as claimed by Hartley I think that the dr. didnt touch Sheila how could he be absolutely sure there were no signs of life? No one can look at a body and be certain without checking for slightest pulse etc. I have seen drs certify many deaths in the past. I have never seen a dr just look from a distance without some sort of even the most routine and basic test. imo

[curiousessex]

Perhaps this diagram might help:-

Mike

I am afraid your theory is inconsistent with a statement that is dated 7th August 1985 which is the same day as the killings and at a time when everything was still being treated as Jeremy had described i.e. the alleged telephone call from Nevill.

Dr Ian Donaldson Craig clearly states in his statement dated 7th August 1985....

'There was what I took to be a .22 rifle lying across her body with a muzzle pointing upwards towards her head and her right hand lying loosely over the butt. There was a quantity of dried blood which had come apparently from her mouth and what appeared to be an entry wound in her throat. I certified death at 8.44 a.m.'

This statement applied to a situation which was, at that time, being considered by all as a murder suicide. Indeed the next day the front pages of the national press proclaimed the events of a murder suicide at WHF in Essex.

The rifle is independently witnessed by a Dr to be on Sheila's body at 8.44am which is the time of Sheila's certified death.

According to your posted bullet point theory please can you explain how a Dr could accurately describe the result of Essex police, 90 minutes later, with a view to framing Jeremy and before the relatives or Julie Mugford had made any statements, moving a rifle from near a window and placing it upon Sheila's body with 'the muzzle pointing upwards towards her head' and her 'right hand lying loosely over the butt'?

[andrea]

He only mentions one wound on all the victims. He didnt go into greater detail because he knew that a Post Mortem would be taking place. I dont believe there is anything sinister in it.

Mike, could you post Bews and Myalls statements please. Fielders, too, if you have it, thanks .

[lookout]

I still wonder, if as claimed by Hartley I think that the dr. didnt touch Sheila how could he be absolutely sure there were no signs of life? No one can look at a body and be certain without checking for slightest pulse etc. I have seen drs certify many deaths in the past. I have never seen a dr just look from a distance without some sort of even the most routine and basic test. imo

A pointer toward the fact that Sheila may have " appeared " to be dead would have been the drugs inside her body,which would have slowed the pulse ( if the dr. felt one ) ,but her brain activity would not have been dead. But unless certain signs were examined,he couldn't have stated,from a distance,that she was dead. Because the heart stops doesn't always necessarily mean that a person is dead.

[andrea]

Do you think Sheila was still alive at this point, lookout?

[lookout]

Do you think Sheila was still alive at this point, lookout?

There's every possibility,Andrea. As brain activity wouldn't have ceased.

[maggie]

There's every possibility,Andrea. As brain activity wouldn't have ceased.

Thing is Lookout, I would hope I am never certified dead by a dr looking at me from a distance unless I'd been decapitated!!   

[Bridget]

Thing is Lookout, I would hope I am never certified dead by a dr looking at me from a distance unless I'd been decapitated!!   

lol

[-Harters-]

Thing is Lookout, I would hope I am never certified dead by a dr looking at me from a distance unless I'd been decapitated!!   

Clearly, for whatever reason, Dr. Craig was able to come to the conclusion that she was obviously deceased.

[lookout]

Thing is Lookout, I would hope I am never certified dead by a dr looking at me from a distance unless I'd been decapitated!!   

Me neither,Maggie,,and mistakes have been made too.

[lookout]

Clearly, for whatever reason, Dr. Craig was able to come to the conclusion that she was obviously deceased.

Yes,and it would be interesting to find out what his findings were too.

[andrea]

Clearly, for whatever reason, Dr. Craig was able to come to the conclusion that she was obviously deceased.

I agree, he also knew that a post Mortem examination was going to be carried out at a later date, so he didnt need to describe all the wounds each victim had either. Just the fact that they had all been shot. IMO.

[-Harters-]

Yes,and it would be interesting to find out what his findings were too.

Well, he found out that she was dead, hence him certifying her death.