Did Sheila Suffer An Attachment Disorder Resulting In Affectionless Psychopathy?

[maggie]

Drugs for treating Schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders must be closely monitored and fine tuned. The fact is that Sheila's last dose of Haloperidol at 100mg, was almost one month earlier. Not a high dosage as you state. The original dose was set at 200mg per fortnight. So although traces of the drug were found I doubt they would have been effective.
Freddie states that he was fearful of his own safety during the episode at his apartment. CC's mother discribes Sheila's behaviour as 'Hyper-active'.
As for the adoption discussion, we know for a fact that June was concerned that the twins would end up being adopted because of Sheil's behaviour [CC's mothers statement] so it is perfectly plausable that the discussion did take place as Jeremy testified.

Hi lebaleb, it must have been a dreadful and v ery worrying time for June and Ralph.  To see their daughter in the state Sheila was in and the fear for their grandsons and their future I would think was worry enough for Ralph to look worn oiut and worried and ill.

[Jane]

Drugs for treating Schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders must be closely monitored and fine tuned. The fact is that Sheila's last dose of Haloperidol at 100mg, was almost one month earlier. Not a high dosage as you state. The original dose was set at 200mg per fortnight. So although traces of the drug were found I doubt they would have been effective.
Freddie states that he was fearful of his own safety during the episode at his apartment. CC's mother discribes Sheila's behaviour as 'Hyper-active'.
As for the adoption discussion, we know for a fact that June was concerned that the twins would end up being adopted because of Sheil's behaviour [CC's mothers statement] so it is perfectly plausable that the discussion did take place as Jeremy testified.

'Morning lebaleb. I, and numerous others have told Steve, on numerous occasions, much of what you are saying now. He "adjusts" her meds and their effects on her according to what fits with what ever he's presenting at the time.

[lookout]

Hi lebaleb, it must have been a dreadful and v ery worrying time for June and Ralph.  To see there daughter in the state Sheila was in and the fear for their grandsons and their future I would think was worry enough for Ralph to look worn oiut and worried and ill.

There is no doubt that the increasingly worrying behaviour of Sheila took its toll on both June and Nevill,over a number of years.
Even when Sheila attended school there wasn't much respite, as her behaviour then got her expelled,,so from a very early age,,there had been difficulties with her.
I think you'd probably find,,back in her blood family, particularly female,,that there would have been a medical history somewhere,,of a psychological nature,,whether it was post-natal or depression.
Sheila can be forgiven for what happened at the farmhouse because she had completely lost control of who she was and what purpose she served in life,,poor girl was so very ill.
I see no other person involved as to what went on that night.

[lookout]

I believe that there were quite a number of character witnesses who were not called to the stand? Bad defence lawyers.

You're telling me there were some bad defence lawyers.Hopeless and useless.

[Jane]

Hi lebaleb, it must have been a dreadful and v ery worrying time for June and Ralph.  To see there daughter in the state Sheila was in and the fear for their grandsons and their future I would think was worry enough for Ralph to look worn oiut and worried and ill.

'Morning Maggie. Nevill and June must have been given a prognosis for Sheila when she was first diagnosed. They would have realized before she did, IF she ever did, that it would be difficult for her to ever lead a totally independent life, and given that they were very private people, I feel it highly unlikely that they fully shared their concerns for her future with the wider family and I feel it not impossible that they didn't encourage them to socialize with her. Whether this was simply about keeping it to themselves, or concerns that the family, who referred to Sheila as one of the "Cuckoos," wouldn't be supportive, or embarrassment that mental illness had touched them and they didn't know how to deal with it, can only be guessed at, but I have the impression that the worst ravages of Sheila's condition were the "family secret."

[maggie]

'Morning Maggie. Nevill and June must have been given a prognosis for Sheila when she was first diagnosed. They would have realized before she did, IF she ever did, that it would be difficult for her to ever lead a totally independent life, and given that they were very private people, I feel it highly unlikely that they fully shared their concerns for her future with the wider family and I feel it not impossible that they didn't encourage them to socialize with her. Whether this was simply about keeping it to themselves, or concerns that the family, who referred to Sheila as one of the "Cuckoos," wouldn't be supportive, or embarrassment that mental illness had touched them and they didn't know how to deal with it, can only be guessed at, but I have the impression that the worst ravages of Sheila's condition were the "family secret."

It's a pretty awful situation to have to deal with and no doubt it was becomi.g increasingly obvious to them that Sheila was bevoming worse not better. As a mother myself I would imagine watching my daughter who had always struggled descend deeper into mental illness would take over most of my thoughts.  Trying to solve the problem of caring for her and keeping the twins close was an understandable discussion. The fact that Colin had custody wouldn't stop them trying to find some sort of solution for them all. imo

[Jane]

It's a pretty awful situation to have to deal with and no doubt it was becomi.g increasingly obvious to them that Sheila was bevoming worse not better. As a mother myself I would imagine watching my daughter who had always struggled descend deeper into mental illness would take over most of my thoughts.  Trying to solve the problem of caring for her and keeping the twins close was an understandable discussion. The fact that Colin had custody wouldn't stop them trying to find some sort of solution for them all. imo

Yes Maggie, I get the impression, that as far as Sheila was concerned, they probably lurched from crisis to crisis, praying that each one would be the last and possibly breathing sighs of relief during those times she became hospitalized and the responsibility of people who knew what to do to keep her safe.

[maggie]

Yes Maggie, I get the impression, that as far as Sheila was concerned, they probably lurched from crisis to crisis, praying that each one would be the last and possibly breathing sighs of relief during those times she became hospitalized and the responsibility of people who knew what to do to keep her safe.

It,s true Aprilthat Sheila and the twins would be their first concern. We know June had suffered from depression through her marriage but was apparently stabalised by this time. Jeremy stated he found their relationship easier over the last two years.So Jeremy I would believe was not much of a worry to them, apart from the usual parent, child things, one would imagine and although he is blamed for Ralph's anxiety, ageing and general depression it is logical to think this had much more to do with Sheila and her illness etc. imo.

[maggie]

I dont know if june saw her adopted children as second choice. Of course every woman assumes they will bare their own children. Not being able to have your own children is a blow for any woman who wants them. It does not necessarily mean her adpted children are ever considered second choice. Mine never were. We dont really know the truth of June's mental illness and when I said through I meant at various times. 

[maggie]

Hi Maggie

Sorry I should have explained the second choice thing comes from the following see 6.45 in.  It explains much better than my post.  Sorry I'm trying to do too many things and didn't explain very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibxq6Wgvh0s&feature=relmfu

Goodnight Maggie x

Goodnight egap xx

[Steve_uk]

There is a prosecution witness who has stated that fostering was discussed by immediate family.  Even if this was only referring to some kind of temporary assistance, what you have to try and take in to account is how such discussions might have been perceived by Sheila, in her mind, given the condition of her mental health.  It is Sheila's perception that is all important here, in my opinion.

At least the Jeremy supporters are on firmer ground with the subject of Sheila and her "meds",but what you fail to do is to put this in any balanced context alongside Jeremy and dismiss all the damning evidence as hearsay,whilst I try to argue the point about Sheila in a way you don't like.

[Caroline R]

At least the Jeremy supporters are on firmer ground with the subject of Sheila and her "meds",but what you fail to do is to put this in any balanced context alongside Jeremy and dismiss all the damning evidence as hearsay,whilst I try to argue the point about Sheila in a way you don't like.

What you fail to understand (or like) is that your so called 'damning evidence' is opinion, supposition and guess work!

[Jane]

A very interesting and moving piece on last nights "Newsnight" showed how devasting can be a rare condition called Post Partum Psychosis. It highlighted three women who had suffered this condition, sadly they could only interview two because the third had killed herself and her baby girl.

The symptoms the mothers describe sounded exactly like those of Sheila. They described the belief that their babies were evil and telling them to do bad things. one of the mothers was in  a secure psychiatrac ward for 6 months before she was cured. The condition can escalate from 1 to 10 over a couple of days.

[lookout]

A very interesting and moving piece on last nights "Newsnight" showed how devasting can be a rare condition called Post Partum Psychosis. It highlighted three women who had suffered this condition, sadly they could only interview two because the third had killed herself and her baby girl.

The symptoms the mothers describe sounded exactly like those of Sheila. They described the belief that their babies were evil and telling them to do bad things. one of the mothers was in  a secure psychiatrac ward for 6 months before she was cured. The condition can escalate from 1 to 10 over a couple of days.

Hi April,,,apologies for taking this subject to the other thread,but as there appeared to be nobody about on the relevant thread,,,and I'd only just seen the programme advertised,I posted on the one with the latest post in the hope that someone would watch this interesting subject. ( intake of breath )

It was most interesting in that it was the same pattern of each patients' mindset,,as Sheilas' was,,,except that Sheilas' illness was far more advanced,,and there weren't the same resources as there are now. Plus,,Sheilas' drug habit only led to inflame an already fragile situation.
Chances are,that when you read of tragedies where a mother has killed her children,,9 out of 10 times,it's following the birth of a baby,,and the most frightening thing is,,that you can't pin-point any particular person,as it's not recognised at all.
The mothers can't even understand what's happening to themselves when they get these thoughts of wanting to harm their children that they love so much. It's a very cruel and well hidden illness and nobody knows why it happens.Scary,indeed.

[lebaleb]

At least the Jeremy supporters are on firmer ground with the subject of Sheila and her "meds",but what you fail to do is to put this in any balanced context alongside Jeremy and dismiss all the damning evidence as hearsay,whilst I try to argue the point about Sheila in a way you don't like.

What damning evidence??