Did Sheila Suffer An Attachment Disorder Resulting In Affectionless Psychopathy?

[Jane]

Looking at her build I should think she was aiming for fashion modelling?

Grahame, whilst looking for something else I found this info. Sheila, apparently was a slightly built, 5' 7.5" and weighed 8 st 4 ounces, which in my book is VERY slight. During the same period I was 5' 8" and weighed 9st 2ounces. I'm told, despite that I had no need of breast augmentation, that I looked as if I had just been released from Belsen. Pictures tell me I was seriously underweight for my build. Sheila was nearly a full stone lighter. As my dress size at the time was 10/12, I cant imagine Sheila's being more than 6/8.

[boheme]

Boheme I'm familiar with those old Georgian country houses at night and there's always something reflecting on a window whether it's a rush of the wind making trees sway or an owl or a bat or the moon's reflection. I have looked at several books and some say they all saw this figure when they were walking down Pages Lane,others say that it was Jeremy himself who grabbed hold of the other Police officers dramatically and ducked down. What were the Police to do in that situation? Jeremy was the one who knew the layout of the property and who had minutes before spun the story of Sheila going berserk with a gun. The Police went along with Jeremy's scenario on this matter and others as well,so much so that bedding and carpets were burned as we now know destroying vital forensic evidence.

As for Jeremy not being marked,well Sheila wasn't either so that proves nothing,though I think it might have been David Balfour who noticed the tiniest of scratches on Jeremy's hands after the murders,but then again Jeremy was a farmer and again this proves nothing. What I would say is that it's not so unbelievable that Jeremy did not need to come into contact with any of his victims apart from Sheila,and it's my belief that she was in a world of her own those last few days and went to her death like a lamb to the slaughter,as did the twins. June was shot initially as she sat up in bed wondering what was going on,and Ralph had been incapacitated with at least one shot either in the bedroom or on the landing,and in my scenario he rushes downstairs to the telephone,he does not attack Jeremy. Jeremy then reloads and pumps the next load of bullets into Ralph,who is after all at this stage a wounded 61 year old man who put up the best struggle he could muster,but still Jeremy does not need to come into contact with him at any stage.

Ahh, you could well be right..... for some bizzare reason I am trying to find a glint of hope for JB, but his statements to the Police were pretty damning and the phone calls as well... following this website has become a sort of pastime...

[Jane]

Ahh, you could well be right..... for some bizzare reason I am trying to find a glint of hope for JB, but his statements to the Police were pretty damning and the phone calls as well... following this website has become a sort of pastime...ote

Hi Boheme

Nothing wrong with healthy scepticism.  If I had no experience/knowledge of adoption and psychology I'm sure I wld be sceptical as it is I firmly believe in JB's innocence. 

I enjoy reading posts by quality anti posters like Bridget and -The Jam- (formerly Hartley) but there's nothing in those arguments that leads me to question my own beliefs.

Egap, I agree entirely, how else can we assess whether we are right or wrong in the views we hold if we don't at least give consideration to the well thought through views of those whose ideas are contrary to our own?

[Roch]

Hi Maggie

Best things come in small packages  don't they Rochford 

 

Ahem! yes, I'm only 5'7 &1/2  height, not length 

[Steve_uk]

Hi Steve_uk

The links below show the last living person to speak with Sheila and June, ie Pamela Boutflour (PB), as stating the follwing:

- PB made all the conversation, with SC simply replying yes or no.
- The conversation suddenly stopped which PB thought strange.
- PB thought it strange that SC didn't say goodnight Auntie Pam which she would normally do.
- June told PB she was very worried about SC and she wanted PB to form an opnion about her health
- June told PB SC had no interest in anything including the twins or housework.
- PB gathered from what June was saying SC was acting oddly.

- PB thought June acted quite normally. 

The above sounds to me like SC had sadly given up on life

Steve_uk SC did not need to be psychotic to carry out the murders.  I'm more inclined towards thinking of some sort of rage rather than pscychosis based on my post 1 of this thread.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1188.0;attach=6165

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1188.0;attach=6166

Everything I read about Sheila in those past hours confirms my suspicion that Sheila was quiet,passive and certainly not in a rage about the discussion alleged to have taken place by Jeremy about Sheila being allowed to lose control of the twins. Even in a psychotic state there is no evidence of violence towards others;any violence shown was manifested at herself or inanimate objects.

[lookout]

It wasn't inanimate objects that night,Steve. Poor Sheila " flipped ".! No getting away from it.

[Steve_uk]

It wasn't inanimate objects that night,Steve. Poor Sheila " flipped ".! No getting away from it.

No she couldn't have loaded the gun. Freddi Emani's evidence proves it. There was also the matter of the smashed light fitting in the kitchen,which I suggest is more likely to have occurred when Nevill struggled with Jeremy,rather than wrestling control of a gun from the slightly built Sheila.

[lookout]

No she couldn't have loaded the gun. Freddi Emani's evidence proves it. There was also the matter of the smashed light fitting in the kitchen,which I suggest is more likely to have occurred when Nevill struggled with Jeremy,rather than wrestling control of a gun from the slightly built Sheila.

Slightly built,nothing. Sheila proved that she was as strong as an ox. The size is nothing to go by at all.
What's the saying.? " The bigger they come,the harder they fall ",,and Nevill was no match against the barrel of a gun no matter who'd held it. Had it been Jeremy,,there'd have been a real scrap,,with Jeremy probably coming off worse against his father.
 It's obvious that Nevill " could " have rendered Sheila unconscious if he'd wanted to,but would have been at a loss when it came to tackling a woman ( his own daughter ) so
 was taken unawares.
Jeremy had no marks of a struggle on his body. After all,JM would have seen them straightaway when she jumped into bed with her " murderer ".

[Steve_uk]

Slightly built,nothing. Sheila proved that she was as strong as an ox. The size is nothing to go by at all.
What's the saying.? " The bigger they come,the harder they fall ",,and Nevill was no match against the barrel of a gun no matter who'd held it. Had it been Jeremy,,there'd have been a real scrap,,with Jeremy probably coming off worse against his father.
 It's obvious that Nevill " could " have rendered Sheila unconscious if he'd wanted to,but would have been at a loss when it came to tackling a woman ( his own daughter ) so
 was taken unawares.
Jeremy had no marks of a struggle on his body. After all,JM would have seen them straightaway when she jumped into bed with her " murderer ".

There were very light scratches on his hands because,you see,a glove had come off in the fight which Julie could only have known had Jeremy been there;as for Sheila I suggest to you that had Ralph(Nevill) not been shot at this stage which we surmise from the telephone call to Jeremy(let's go along with the Jeremy supporters' charade for a moment) he could have wrested control of the gun from Sheila who was 5" 7ins without the gun hitting the ceiling light. It's far more likely that in the struggle for life and death that it was Jeremy who overcame his father,a 61 year old man who had been ill, and who shortly afterwards finished him off with the remaining four shots.

[lookout]

There were very light scratches on his hands;as for Sheila I suggest to you that had Ralph(Nevill) not been shot at this stage which we surmise from the telephone call to Jeremy(let's go along with the Jeremy supporters' charade for a moment) he could have wrested control of the gun from Sheila who was 5" 7ins without the gun hitting the ceiling light. It's far more likely that in the struggle for life and death that it was Jeremy who overcame his father,a 61 year old man who had been ill, and who shortly afterwards finished him off with the remaining four shots.

Oh,I think there'd have been more than light scratches if Jeremy had tussled with his father. No disrespects to Jeremy,at the time,but I don't think he had it in him ( physically ) to attack anyone.
You're forgetting that it was Sheila who was full of bitterness,drugs ( prescription ) and otherwise. A person doesn't know their own strength when full of rage, combined with the above as well.
It would have been pretty difficult for Nevill to have made any sort of a phone-call that night,as for a start,he'd taken the bedroom phone downstairs,,because Sheila would have made sure that the other one was hidden under magazines. Nevill may have had to have made a couple of trips up the 3 flights of stairs to get his phone,,and when you've got someone pointing a gun at you,it must have been Hell for him.
Yes,poor man eventually made that call,as it was logged twice.!  It's no " charade ",as you put it.

[Steve_uk]

Oh,I think there'd have been more than light scratches if Jeremy had tussled with his father. No disrespects to Jeremy,at the time,but I don't think he had it in him ( physically ) to attack anyone.
You're forgetting that it was Sheila who was full of bitterness,drugs ( prescription ) and otherwise. A person doesn't know their own strength when full of rage, combined with the above as well.
It would have been pretty difficult for Nevill to have made any sort of a phone-call that night,as for a start,he'd taken the bedroom phone downstairs,,because Sheila would have made sure that the other one was hidden under magazines. Nevill may have had to have made a couple of trips up the 3 flights of stairs to get his phone,,and when you've got someone pointing a gun at you,it must have been Hell for him.
Yes,poor man eventually made that call,as it was logged twice.!  It's no " charade ",as you put it.

It's funny,but I never perceived Sheila as a bitter person,even with her illness. She had had the twins and so was no longer worrying whether her earlier abortions had prevented her from becoming a mother,she had her Maida Vale flat with the bills paid..she was trying to learn more about religion to please her mother June,not the other way round.

If you're looking for the bitter personage in this story look no further than Jeremy. He was bitter at having been packed off to another strange environment at 8 years old,when he finally received a modicum of freedom he was bitter that he was rejected at his dream job as deep sea diver because his skull had been damaged due to June's neglect when he was a baby,he was bitter at the clause in Nevill's will which tied him to the farm during his father's lifetime,and he was bitter at the perceived preferential treatment Sheila was receiving at the hands of June,when the dividends of the caravan park went straight to Sheila,whereas Pamela Boutflour showered her income from the park on Jeremy's cousin,Ann Eaton.

[maggie]

It's funny,but I never perceived Sheila as a bitter person,even with her illness. She had had the twins and so was no longer worrying whether her earlier abortions had prevented her from becoming a mother,she had her Maida Vale flat with the bills paid..she was trying to learn more about religion to please her mother June,not the other way round.

If you're looking for the bitter personage in this story look no further than Jeremy. He was bitter at having been packed off to another strange environment at 8 years old,when he finally received a modicum of freedom he was bitter that he was rejected at his dream job as deep sea diver because his skull had been damaged due to June's neglect when he was a baby,he was bitter at the clause in Nevill's will which tied him to the farm during his father's lifetime,and he was bitter at the perceived preferential treatment Sheila was receiving at the hands of June,when the dividends of the caravan park went straight to Sheila,whereas Pamela Boutflour showered her income from the park on Jeremy's cousin,Ann Eaton.

Steve, you have absolutely no evidence for these allegations.  Also,do you have any idea about the symptoms of schizophrenia?  Obsessive grudge bearing is a symptom of the illness.  An event from years before can be obsessed over on an ongoing basis.  Anger and rage are also very much a symptom.  I know you see Sheila as a sweet and pretty woman which she may well have been but tragically she did develop this awful illness.

[lookout]

It's funny,but I never perceived Sheila as a bitter person,even with her illness. She had had the twins and so was no longer worrying whether her earlier abortions had prevented her from becoming a mother,she had her Maida Vale flat with the bills paid..she was trying to learn more about religion to please her mother June,not the other way round.

If you're looking for the bitter personage in this story look no further than Jeremy. He was bitter at having been packed off to another strange environment at 8 years old,when he finally received a modicum of freedom he was bitter that he was rejected at his dream job as deep sea diver because his skull had been damaged due to June's neglect when he was a baby,he was bitter at the clause in Nevill's will which tied him to the farm during his father's lifetime,and he was bitter at the perceived preferential treatment Sheila was receiving at the hands of June,when the dividends of the caravan park went straight to Sheila,whereas Pamela Boutflour showered her income from the park on Jeremy's cousin,Ann Eaton.

Steve,,how do you know what was going on in Sheilas' mind.? Sheila was actually hospitalised for a few months while pregnant with the twins,,so she'd obviously suffered trauma there,,then post-natal depression which was then left to develop into something of a psychosis.
I have a good idea what she suffered afterwards,,as her mind would have been in turmoil,,,maybe blaming the twins on how she felt,,then Colin for giving her children. It wasn't long after the twins were born,that they divorced,,so that has to ring alarm bells about her delicate state of mind.

Against Sheila,Jeremy had a far more balanced outlook and didn't show any signs of violence or any of the other traits you get with young people,,but Sheilas' life was doomed from the start,,as in her teenage years,she was on a downward spiral.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, you have absolutely no evidence for these allegations.  Also,do you have any idea about the symptoms of schizophrenia?  Obsessive grudge bearing is a symptom of the illness.  An event from years before can be obsessed over on an ongoing basis.  Anger and rage are also very much a symptom.  I know you see Sheila as a sweet and pretty woman which she may well have been but tragically she did develop this awful illness.

I think you may be mixing Paranoid Personality Disorder with schizophrenia which nobody denies that Sheila suffered from. The idea that Sheila bore any grudge towards Nevill,who was always the calming influence in her life is just another indication that the Jeremy supporters are attempting to pin the blame on an admittedly sick woman,because the telephone call which was completely invented by Jeremy necessitates it.

[maggie]

I think you may be mixing Paranoid Personality Disorder with schizophrenia which nobody denies that Sheila suffered from. The idea that Sheila bore any grudge towards Nevill,who was always the calming influence in her life is just another indication that the Jeremy supporters are attempting to pin the blame on an admittedly sick woman,because the telephone call which was completely invented by Jeremy necessitates it.

I am not getting mixed up steve and I did not say she held grudges against Ralph but I did say she would hold grudges and obsess in general....I don't know what she did or didn't obsess about...I'm not psychic like you.