No evidence Sheila was photo'd until after rifle was photograped at window (23).

[grahameb]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2185.0;attach=11962;image

Interesting. Thank you Patti. I did note something in that script. (1) Cook "gently" moved the hand. If her body was in rigor do you think he would have been able to do that?
And (2) It is acknowledged in the script that the gun "was" moved.

[mike tesko]

Police shot and killed Sheila after they took the rifle from the bedroom window (23) and placed it on her body - it was loaded at the time and due to mishandling and failing to check to make sure it was in a safe condition, a shot was discharged which effectively killed Sheila. They moved her body onto the floor and placed it on a rug from another part of the bedroom which had spots of June Bambers blood upon it. The bloodstain on the back of her nightdress was not duplicated on the rug beneath her body - they shot her, and killed her, and then they set about trying to cover up what they did. Part of the action they took was to create a false photographic record in the form of the MASTER COPY ALBUM into which they placed 223 of the 581 photographs they had taken, and from this they preselected 50 of those, and made them into another album, which they called the COURT ALBUM, which was to be given to the jury to help them make up their minds, as to Jeremy's guilt, or innocence? There were photographs in that COURT ALBUM which showed Sheila's body with the rifle atop it, which had been stage managed by the police, but the prosecution suggested that this was how Jeremy had left the body with a view to fooling the police into thinking, or accepting that Sheila took her own life (but she did not, and neither did Jeremy shoot and kill her), but it was the police who shot, and killed Sheila...

They cut up strips of photographic negatives to get rid of damning photographs in sequential order, which could be used at a later date by anyone who might come along to try and reconstruct what took place. Just like what they did with the bloodstained bedroom carpet, from that rather crucial area of the bedroom for where they had stage managed Sheila's body...

Crooks, the lot of them, evil "scumbag" crooks...

[grahameb]

Police shot and killed Sheila after they took the rifle from the bedroom window (23) and placed it on her body - it was loaded at the time and due to mishandling and failing to check to make sure it was in a safe condition, a shot was discharged which effectively killed Sheila. They moved her body onto the floor and placed it on a rug from another part of the bedroom which had spots of June Bambers blood upon it. The bloodstain on the back of her nightdress was not duplicated on the rug beneath her body - they shot her and killed her, and then they set about trying to cover up what they did. Part of the action they took was to create a false photogroahic recird in the form of the MASTER COPY ALBUM into which they placed 223 of the 581 photogrioahs they had taken, and from this they preselected 50 of those and made them into another album which they called the COURT ALBUM, which was to be given to the jury to help them make up their minds as to Jeremy's guilt or innocence? There were photographs in that COURT ALBUM which showed Sheila;'s body with the rifle atop it, which had been stage managed by the police, but the prosecution suggested that this was how Jeremy had left the body with a view to fooling the police into thinking or accepting that Sheila took her own life (but she did not, and neither did Jeremy shoot and kill her) but it was the police who shot and killed Sheila...

They cut up strips of photographic negatives to get rid of damning photographs in sequential order which could be used at a later date by anyone who might come along to try and reconstruct what took place. Just like what they did with the bloodstained bedroom carpet from that rather crucial area of the bedroom for where they had stage managed Sheila's body...

Crooks, the loot of them, evil "scumbag" crooks...

Mike, was the gun checked to see if it had a hair trigger? I know some can be adjusted.

[mike tesko]

Mike, was the gun checked to see if it had a hair trigger? I know some can be adjusted.

I am not sure, but what I do know is that police at the scene were satisfied that Sheila could have shot herself twice because of recoil, so they must have thought that it did have a hair trigger, otherwise they wouldn't have come to the conclusion they did, if the trigger action was stiff...

[mike tesko]

Police shot and killed Sheila after they took the rifle from the bedroom window (23) and placed it on her body - it was loaded at the time and due to mishandling and failing to check to make sure it was in a safe condition, a shot was discharged which effectively killed Sheila. They moved her body onto the floor and placed it on a rug from another part of the bedroom which had spots of June Bambers blood upon it. The bloodstain on the back of her nightdress was not duplicated on the rug beneath her body - they shot her, and killed her, and then they set about trying to cover up what they did. Part of the action they took was to create a false photographic record in the form of the MASTER COPY ALBUM into which they placed 223 of the 581 photographs they had taken, and from this they preselected 50 of those, and made them into another album, which they called the COURT ALBUM, which was to be given to the jury to help them make up their minds, as to Jeremy's guilt, or innocence? There were photographs in that COURT ALBUM which showed Sheila's body with the rifle atop it, which had been stage managed by the police, but the prosecution suggested that this was how Jeremy had left the body with a view to fooling the police into thinking, or accepting that Sheila took her own life (but she did not, and neither did Jeremy shoot and kill her), but it was the police who shot, and killed Sheila...

They cut up strips of photographic negatives to get rid of damning photographs in sequential order, which could be used at a later date by anyone who might come along to try and reconstruct what took place. Just like what they did with the bloodstained bedroom carpet, from that rather crucial area of the bedroom for where they had stage managed Sheila's body...

Crooks, the lot of them, evil "scumbag" crooks...

They then hide the 581 photographs contained inside the SENIOR INVESTIGATING OFFICERS ALBUM at headquarters, so that no-one can get their hands on it, depriving the defence of over 358 pictures that may have assisted the defence during the trial...

[mike tesko]

Another sad thing, is that even if the police did shoot and kill Sheila' the relatives would not want the truth to come out, because it would create all sorts of problems for them financially, emotionally, psychologically, and physically...

I don't think the relatives care if the police shot Sheila, as described, just so long as Jeremy is kept locked up for the rest of his natural life...

[maggie]

Another sad thing, is that even if the police did shoot and kill Sheila' the relatives would not want the truth to come out, because it would create all sorts of problems for them financially, emotionally, psychologically, and physically...

I don't think the relatives care if the police shot Sheila, as described, just so long as Jeremy is kept locked up for the rest of his natural life...

That is a very sad thing Mike.

[Jane]

Another sad thing, is that even if the police did shoot and kill Sheila' the relatives would not want the truth to come out, because it would create all sorts of problems for them financially, emotionally, psychologically, and physically...

I don't think the relatives care if the police shot Sheila, as described, just so long as Jeremy is kept locked up for the rest of his natural life...

I think that on that August night, two birds (cuckoos?) were killed very effectively with a stray bullet. I think Sheila and Jeremy had probably been thorns in avararistic family flesh from the time of their adoption. The removal of one, subsequently making provision for the removal of both from sharing the family fortune, may well have been seen as a golden opportunity. Like you, Mike, I find it hard to believe they cared beyond the fact that dirty washing may have to be done in public.

[Steve_uk]

I think that on that August night, two birds (cuckoos?) were killed very effectively with a stray bullet. I think Sheila and Jeremy had probably been thorns in avararistic family flesh from the time of their adoption. The removal of one, subsequently making provision for the removal of both from sharing the family fortune, may well have been seen as a golden opportunity. Like you, Mike, I find it hard to believe they cared beyond the fact that dirty washing may have to be done in public.

..and yet the relatives were not beneficiaries of Nevill and June's estate;Sheila had the London flat and Jeremy would inherit the farm. It was Jeremy Bamber who was set to inherit as things stood after the murders and Ann Eaton's sole concern was her innate belief that "Sheila couldn't have done it".

[grahameb]

..and yet the relatives were not beneficiaries of Nevill and June's estate;Sheila had the London flat and Jeremy would inherit the farm. It was Jeremy Bamber who was set to inherit as things stood after the murders and Ann Eaton's sole concern was her innate belief that "Sheila couldn't have done it".

When I was a young man I used to visit an old man just to keep him company. He didn't have much and his daughter and other relations never ever visited him.
But when he died they were round his house like a shot. Cleared out everything and were never seen again.
When people die I have often seen this avarice within mankind surface like a monster. It is the ugly side of human nature and affects most of us.

[mike tesko]

..and yet the relatives were not beneficiaries of Nevill and June's estate;Sheila had the London flat and Jeremy would inherit the farm. It was Jeremy Bamber who was set to inherit as things stood after the murders and Ann Eaton's sole concern was her innate belief that "Sheila couldn't have done it".

This is not entirely true, it was not clear cut who stood to inherit either parents estate? Depended on order of death, whether Ralph survived June, or vice versa?  The contents of both wills were not identical, so it mattered who died before the other...

I agree that Sheila could not have committed suicide with the rifle that was leaning up against the bedroom window, whilst her body was found (a) downstairs in the kitchen, (b) upstairs on the bed, or (c) with her body on the floor in the bedroom...

[mike tesko]

At some stage after photograph 23 was taken,  police renoved the metal end cap from the end of its barrel - this metal end cap would later become an exhibit of the court without anyone providing any information about who took possession of it, where it was found or when? This is because it was fitted to the end of the rifles barrel during the shootings and was the end of the guns barrel with paint on it, that DS Davidson spoke to COLP about - police know that at least one mark found on the underside of the aga surround was made when this metal end cap came into contact with it during the shootings. It must have been attached to the barrel of the rifle when the mark was made, therefore making it less  likely that a silencer was used with that rifle...

Although this end cap was removwd by the police from the end of the rifles barrel after photo 23, was taken, police originally intended to suggest it had been discovered downstairs - this was because after police shot Sheila they needed to try and  make this into a one gun crime where the person who was the principal suspect shot herself twice with use of the same .22 rifle (alrhough she had not). Later on, police decided to take the metal end cap out of the equation in favour of using the silencer / paint / blood evidence to help convict Jeremy of the murders...

[lookout]

Interesting. Thank you Patti. I did note something in that script. (1) Cook "gently" moved the hand. If her body was in rigor do you think he would have been able to do that?
And (2) It is acknowledged in the script that the gun "was" moved.

Grahame,dependent on the time of death,a person in the throes of rigor can't be " straightened " out without breaking bones. Sheila,in the pic with her hand bent,hadn't been dead for that long as I didn't detect any rigor even by looking at it. Neville would have been dead the longest I would have thought,but Sheilas' would have happened while Jeremy was outside with the police.
I'm just disgusted that times of death weren't recorded,,as it would have helped towards Jeremys' defence.
There wasn't even any sign of livor mortis in Sheila either,,which occurs about 2+ hours after death,,visible,if a person is lying on the floor like Sheila was latterly.( collection of blood that settles wherever or however a person has died  in that position.)

[Jane]

..and yet the relatives were not beneficiaries of Nevill and June's estate;Sheila had the London flat and Jeremy would inherit the farm. It was Jeremy Bamber who was set to inherit as things stood after the murders and Ann Eaton's sole concern was her innate belief that "Sheila couldn't have done it".

The London flat was of no use to Sheila after she was dead, nor to the twins for the same reason. I'm fully aware that Jeremy would have inherited the farm and one of the ideas he'd tossed around, and at his age, why not, was that he would like to live in Devon and I contend that the rellies could NOT have been unconcerned about their future should this happen. I cannot be said that Jeremy's conviction did NOT work to their advantage.

As to your contention of "AEs sole concern", I find it both arrogant and presumptous. You are not in a position to tell us what she, or anyone else, was feeling, nor am I, but I can tell you, that with so many variables of personal concern in the mix, "sole concern" is a bit of a misnomer.

[Jane]

........I'm just disgusted that times of death weren't recorded,,as it would have helped towards Jeremys' defence...........

HI lookout. Yes, indeed it would and not doing so was a serious lapse, but at the time, Jeremy had no need of defence.