A third version of events of 7th August 1985

[mike tesko]

No lookout he got in the way the police suggested and the way he himself acknowledged is possible because he'd done it before. (why be facetious about it?)He denied it at first like the liar that he is and then seemed to have changed his story when challenged. Look at the police statements regarding this issue.

Hang on a minute, Jeremy was / is no liar - he took a lie detector test and passed it with flying colours, now lets see if David Boutflour and Julie Mugford and DS "Stan" the man Jones, and DC Clarke, and any of the other conspirators would be prepared to take a lie detector test?

Of course, they wouldn't...

[Roch]

Hang on a minute, Jeremy was / is no liar - he took a lie detector test and passed it with flying colours, now lets see if David Boutflour and Julie Mugford and DS "Stan" the man Jones, and DC Clarke, and any of the other conspirators would be prepared to take a lie detector test?

Of course, they wouldn't...

Bewsy?  I'd like to see his test.

[mertol22]

Bewsy?  I'd like to see his test.

Why bother ? his face i saw on tv gave me the answer long ago. DB bit of caution with that guy he went lupo at the end of the last documentry telling anyone who would listen it ends here ,like hell it does.

[grahameb]

I am glad you have reminded everyone of that Grahame, yourself included.

Perhaps you would like to point out to me where I have speculated? As I have reminded people on many occasions that Jeremy did not have a fair trial. The jury, well 10 of them chose to believe the proven liar JM. And also believed the so called silencer evidence which should have been ruled out as evidence because it was contaminated. That has always been my stance and the only reason I believe JB did not have a fair trial. No speculation in that.
All I have read from 99% of opposition posts is speculation. I just hope that the 99% will take note of this and stick to the facts.

[Bridget]

Bewsy?  I'd like to see his test.

I'd like to see hiis evidence first.

[mertol22]

I'd like to see hiis evidence first.

About much use as a Majestic 12 document all blacked out mostly.

[mertol22]

good to see you again Grahame.

[Bridget]

About much use as a Majestic 12 document all blacked out mostly.

I guess its just too easy to dismiss peoples evidence in that way when it's not likely to support your stance isn't it? Wouldn't you like to see it?

[Moe Cassani]

I guess its just too easy to dismiss peoples evidence in that way when it's not likely to support your stance isn't it? Wouldn't you like to see it?

Absolutely Bridget. This is the core of the supporters entire argument - dismissal of what they see. I thought about this carefuly - what evidence is there to suggest (without all the window-dressing) Sheila Caffell was responsible for these murders? The only conclusion I could come to was...none whatsoever. Since Jeremy phone the police himself and claimed his father had said that Sheila had got crazy and has got the gun' This evidentely leaves only him. There is NO other explanation. The phonecall was his fatal mistake.
This is the whole crux of the case and everything else has just been inserted to muddy the waters, and cloud the issue. Bamber practically fell overself blaming his sister which he strangely described as a 'depressive psychopath' to a policeman outside the farm, one wonders where he obtained this diagnosis? I strongly suspect it was part of a ploy for him to prime the police officers into making sure that they accepted his version of events.
The use of the term 'psychopath' is an interesting one. I will leave it to you to decide why Bamber chose this word when he had absolutely no right or reason to since he was supposed to be unaware of what had recently unfolded inside the house.

[mike tesko]

Absolutely Bridget. This is the core of the supporters entire argument - dismissal of what they see. I thought about this carefuly - what evidence is there to suggest (without all the window-dressing) Sheila Caffell was responsible for these murders? The only conclusion I could come to was...none whatsoever. Since Jeremy phone the police himself and claimed his father had said that Sheila had got crazy and has got the gun' This evidentely leaves only him. There is NO other explanation. The phonecall was his fatal mistake.
This is the whole crux of the case and everything else has just been inserted to muddy the waters, and cloud the issue. Bamber practically fell overself blaming his sister which he strangely described as a 'depressive psychopath' to a policeman outside the farm, one wonders where he obtained this diagnosis? I strongly suspect it was part of a ploy for him to prime the police officers into making sure that they accepted his version of events.
The use of the term 'psychopath' is an interesting one. I will leave it to you to decide why Bamber chose this word when he had absolutely no right or reason to since he was supposed to be unaware of what had recently unfolded inside the house.

There you go again, not getting the facts right...

Now, if you take the time and trouble to read Jeremy's interview record, you will see that he did not tell the police when he made the call to them that his father said Sheila has got the gun, he told PC West that his father said "She has got the gun", and I am not even going to bother explaining the implications of this, if that is indeed what Ralph said to Jeremy, and what Jeremy said to the police? But it should be obvious why PC West twisted Jeremy's words "She has got the gun" into "Sheila has got the gun", which came about because Ralph had already phoned the police and told them that his "daughter had got one of my guns" and that "she was going berserk"...

Now, you choose to believe what you like, but Jeremy set his stall out during the interview and pointed out to the interviewing officers, how PC West had manipulated what Jeremy said his father had told him, Jeremy did not say "Sheila has got the gun", he said "She has got the gun", and there is a big difference between both versions or accounts. If Jeremy had known at the time of his interviews that his farther had also called the police and told them that his "daughter had got one of my guns" and that she was going "Berserk", the reason why PC West was able (later on) to manipulate what he claims Jeremy told him (3:36am), was / is because West had the information to hand about what Ralph (3:26am) told the police, from earlier on...

[mertol22]

I guess its just too easy to dismiss peoples evidence in that way when it's not likely to support your stance isn't it? Wouldn't you like to see it?

These days by no means all police officers but many are fat and lazy, back then they had more insight , when i read bews and jeremy had reason to believe they saw a shadow/ figure in one of the windows i would like to think they did indeed saw something, i would for then consider a police officers judgement /thoughts to have some grains of truth.

[Jane]

There you go again, not getting the facts right...

Now, if you take the time and trouble to read Jeremy's interview record, you will see that he did not tell the police when he made the call to them that his father said Sheila has got the gun, he told PC West that his father said "She has got the gun", and I am not even going to bother explaining the implications of this, if that is indeed what Ralph said to Jeremy, and what Jeremy said to the police? But it should be obvious why PC West twisted Jeremy's words "She has got the gun" into "Sheila has got the gun", which came about because Ralph had already phoned the police and told them that his "daughter had got one of my guns" and that "she was going berserk"...

Now, you choose to believe what you like, but Jeremy set his stall out during the interview and pointed out to the interviewing officers, how PC West had manipulated what Jeremy said his father had told him, Jeremy did not say "Sheila has got the gun", he said "She has got the gun", and there is a big difference between both versions or accounts. If Jeremy had known at the time of his interviews that his farther had also called the police and told them that his "daughter had got one of my guns" and that she was going "Berserk", the reason why PC West was able (later on) to manipulate what he claims Jeremy told him (3:36am), was / is because West had the information to hand about what Ralph (3:26am) told the police, from earlier on...

There is so little difference between the hastily said statements "She'as got......" and "Sheila's got......" that it may have been difficult to differentiate.

[mike tesko]

There is so little difference between the hastily said statements "She'as got......" and "Sheila's got......" that it may have been difficult to differentiate.

Yes, but nevertheless, Jeremy did make that clear when he was interviewed by the police, he told them that he thought his father had said, "she has got the gun", not that "Sheila's got the gun", so it must have been in Jeremys mind that his father was not identifying either his mother (June) or Sheila, when he spoke to him and said what he said? I remember speaking to Jeremy about this on numerous occasions in the past, and he told me that if he had been able to re-establish contact with his father, he hooped to find out more about what was happening and identify which member of his family had got the gun? But, as we know when he tried to ring his father back he kept getting the engaged tone, and the rest is history....

[Roch]

I'd like to see his evidence first.

Yes I understand that regardless of our side of the fence's likely arguments re his and others' testimony being a bodge job to suit circs, it should still be seen by all.  I was unable to carry out broom stick experiment today but am hoping to do so weds. 

[grahameb]

Absolutely Bridget. This is the core of the supporters entire argument - dismissal of what they see. I thought about this carefuly - what evidence is there to suggest (without all the window-dressing) Sheila Caffell was responsible for these murders? The only conclusion I could come to was...none whatsoever. Since Jeremy phone the police himself and claimed his father had said that Sheila had got crazy and has got the gun' This evidentely leaves only him. There is NO other explanation. The phonecall was his fatal mistake.
This is the whole crux of the case and everything else has just been inserted to muddy the waters, and cloud the issue. Bamber practically fell overself blaming his sister which he strangely described as a 'depressive psychopath' to a policeman outside the farm, one wonders where he obtained this diagnosis? I strongly suspect it was part of a ploy for him to prime the police officers into making sure that they accepted his version of events.
The use of the term 'psychopath' is an interesting one. I will leave it to you to decide why Bamber chose this word when he had absolutely no right or reason to since he was supposed to be unaware of what had recently unfolded inside the house.

But of course your whole argument is based upon the assumption that JB lied. Since Sheila was found with the gun across her body and her finger on the trigger and the words of the senior policeman at the scene then that I would say that it is evidence that Sheila did it. That is of course looking at all things without muddying the waters with all this speculation that Jeremy did not receive a phone call from his father. Plain visible evidence.