Lies told about state of blood (SC) - easily disproved...

[bob]

Sheila  would definitely have been lifted onto the floor from her bed,,because if she was seen to be spluttering caused by blood going down her throat,,then the recovery position is carried out.
Anyone who is lying on their back,choking,,you turn them on their side. It the obvious thing to do.
Her spluttering would have caused further blood to cover her face while lying flat.
Doesn't this make sense to anyone at all.? If you saw someone choking,you'd automatically put them on their side.
The crux of this though,is the fact that Sheila was still alive.Nobody has the cough reflex if they're dead.

[mertol22]

As yet i have no idea of the exact time the shootings started and i dont think anyone else does including the court at the trial of JB so all you can do is guess,for those who believe in JB guilty i will welcome the exact time the events occured.

[Roch]

Read the posts Rochy, we've just shown you which photograph was blown up and enhanced to produce the 'redder' image.

So yes, we can very clearly know that the images are taken at the same time, as they are in fact the same image.

This actually surprised me, but it has completely dispelled the myth that the 'redder' photographs were being withheld prior to 2004.

If you can't understand this or aren't willing to acknowledge this, then fine, but I'd say it strips you of the right to describe others as obtuse.

The photo which we are discussing.  Is it your argument , that this photo was always available... or is it your argument that this photo was not previously available... only became available since 2004 and has been advanced / manipulated to support the defence?

[mike tesko]

Lets get things right in perspective - police developed the crime scene photographs and were able to manipulate what was actually shown in these photographs, by adjusting tone, contrast and whatever they felt was necessary to present their case favourably...

So...

Don't accuse the defence of manipulating the way photographs taken at the scene have been manipulated, the police are guilty of doing this / that themselves, and yet there are some who not only cannot see this, even if they realize this is what the police did, they will go on to say police did nothing wrong, of course not, yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir...

[tonyb]

The problem is there is form in the way photos are presented.it wouldn't be the first time that a supposed ground breaking picture has been proved to be a blatant attempt at pulling the wool over forum members eyes, eh mike.....

[Patti]

They probably didnt mention it because June, Nevil or the twins were not suspected of committing murder whereas Sheila initially was. That was the nature of the initial investigation I am afraid. It is not unusual for blood to flow from wounds, especially as severe as they were - to put it crudely, I I hope you forgive me for - they were full of holes and each body contains 9 pints of blood. Since blood wil find a natural path according to gravitational forces acting upon, they will bleed and bleed profusely. The blood that makes contact with the air will inevitably congeal until it is disturbed again. I have this on good authority from a haemotologist (blood specialist)at my local hospital whom I quizzed during a break in a squash game.

Hi Moe

I have just done a quick google and the consensus is that in order to bleed the heart needs to pump the blood around the body.

If the heart has stopped then the blood finds gravity and fails to the bottom of the body, this is known as Liver Mortis. However in some cases and, depending on how long the body has been dead; if that body is moved or turned over blood can fall to the nearest exit point, ie the mouth or nose.

Normally when the heart stops beating, the blood will stop flowing and fall to gravity.  I said that twice...lol 

[mike tesko]

The problem is there is form in the way photos are presented.it wouldn't be the first time that a supposed ground breaking picture has been proved to be a blatant attempt at pulling the wool over forum members eyes, eh mike.....

You mean like when the police used such techniques to the prosecutions advantage during the trial and subsequent 2002 appeal?

[Patti]

There was wet blood on Neville, from memory it was said to have soaked into his pyjama top during removal.

Hi Bridget

There was wet blood on a bullet on the 11/09/95 according to Fletcher....4 weeks after the murders. Must have had a good fridge...

[Patti]

Blood doesn't pump out of a dead person,,for obvious reasons.

Hi Lookout, I think you are right there, especially after 4 to 5 hours later....or was it? Could it have been just prior to the raid team entering the building?

Also, Shelia had partially digested food...the others hadn't....Her lungs were congested, could this relate to CPR? See ??v?? 

[-Harters-]

The photo which we are discussing.  Is it your argument , that this photo was always available... or is it your argument that this photo was not previously available... only became available since 2004 and has been advanced / manipulated to support the defence?

I think I've been quite clear, please refer to my earlier posts on the subject.

[Moe Cassani]

Hi Moe

I have just done a quick google and the consensus is that in order to bleed the heart needs to pump the blood around the body.

If the heart has stopped then the blood finds gravity and fails to the bottom of the body, this is known as Liver Mortis. However in some cases and, depending on how long the body has been dead; if that body is moved or turned over blood can fall to the nearest exit point, ie the mouth or nose.

Normally when the heart stops beating, the blood will stop flowing and fall to gravity.  I said that twice...lol 

Erm........That's exactly what I have just said.

[Jane]

Hi Moe

I have just done a quick google and the consensus is that in order to bleed the heart needs to pump the blood around the body.

If the heart has stopped then the blood finds gravity and fails to the bottom of the body, this is known as Liver Mortis. However in some cases and, depending on how long the body has been dead; if that body is moved or turned over blood can fall to the nearest exit point, ie the mouth or nose.

Normally when the heart stops beating, the blood will stop flowing and fall to gravity.  I said that twice...lol 

Hi Patti, long time no speak!. Nobody has yet mentioned that whilst both wounds are towards the left side of her neck, blood from these pooling in her left armpit, there is a much thinner trickle emitting from the left corner of her mouth than from the right corner, where it also runs back into her eye. How can this be explained?

[Roch]

I think I've been quite clear, please refer to my earlier posts on the subject.

I don't think you've been clear at all.  Please dispense with the supercilious tone.  You're not going to get a rise out of me by employing it.

[Roch]

Read the posts Rochy, we've just shown you which photograph was blown up and enhanced to produce the 'redder' image.

So yes, we can very clearly know that the images are taken at the same time, as they are in fact the same image.

This actually surprised me, but it has completely dispelled the myth that the 'redder' photographs were being withheld prior to 2004.

If you can't understand this or aren't willing to acknowledge this, then fine, but I'd say it strips you of the right to describe others as obtuse.

Please don't talk down to me.  No myths have been dispelled.  What has been compared is a possible photo of a photo with a possible lab blow up or enhanced image of the same crime scene, from another source, other than the photo of the photo (?).   

[mike tesko]

Erm........That's exactly what I have just said.

How could / can blood run horizontally from the corners of Sheila's mouth and entry wound sites, if blood falls to the lowest part of the body after death, if police or anyone did not stage manage Sheila's body, and she died there on the bedroom floor, and nobody moved or put her body there, or stage managed it? By the same token, how did blood from the lower entry wound manage to run in a totally different direction if she was not stood upright at any stage, after the first shot was / had been inflicted?

I would suggest and I believe and know that after Sheila was shot for the first time she was stood upright and walked about, but that she was laid down when a policeman shot her with use of the WPC Jeapes rifle that had earlier been spotted resting against the bedroom window - now what I want to know is, how did the WPC Jeapes rifle get from the bedroom window onto Sheila's body after about 7:15am, and before 10am to enable PC Bird to photograph it there? If police found Sheila's body on the floor, and the rifle that fired the fatal bullet (PV/19) was resting against the bedroom window when police first entered the bedroom, how was /is it possible for police to conclude as they did do, that Sheila killed the others and that she had then taken her own life by shooting herself under the chin by way of a solitary shot? Even if she had two wounds by that stage (imaginary scenario) how could Sheila's body be found on the bedroom floor, and the rifle which fired both shots (imaginary scenario) be resting up against the bedroom window, and police conclude that she killed the others and then took her own life on the bedroom floor - how did the rifle which Jeapes saw get from the window onto Sheila's body by 10am that morning?

Why was there a lengthy delay before SOC were allowed to take crime scene photographs?

Did such a delay take place, or did the police just make out there was such a delay? In fact, were / are all the withheld (358) pictures which form part and parcel of the senior investigating officers (581) album, mainly photographs taken at the scene before 10am?