Author Topic: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...  (Read 15020 times)

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Offline maggie

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2012, 10:28:AM »
Morning lookout.  My thoughts exactly if Jeremy did murder his family and Julie knew previously he was going to carry out the act she could have prevented it.  Also if you knew your partner of 2 years had carried out these murders two of which were two little boys could you have carried on sharing his bed  I would think could be my turn next I'm off no self respecting person could have continued the relationship.
Susie can you remember the name of Jeremy's previous long term girlfriend. He lived with her for about 3years I think and gave a statement which I can't seem to find now. She would have known Jeremy at least if not better than JM. She would have become aware during their time together if Jeremy showed any signs of personality dissorder.  He wouldnt have been able to hide such traits from her over time.

Offline susan

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2012, 10:32:AM »
Hi Mags  it is on the tip of my tongue I know she spoke well of him and said he was good with her children she gave a witness statement but was not presented in Court due to the fact she was quite abit older than Jeremy and thought it would not look good.  I am sure Bridget will pounce with her name :)

Offline Moe Cassani

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2012, 10:42:AM »
Hi Mags  it is on the tip of my tongue I know she spoke well of him and said he was good with her children she gave a witness statement but was not presented in Court due to the fact she was quite abit older than Jeremy and thought it would not look good.  I am sure Bridget will pounce with her name :)
I think she was called Sue Ford.

Offline lookout

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2012, 10:49:AM »
Morning lookout.  My thoughts exactly if Jeremy did murder his family and Julie knew previously he was going to carry out the act she could have prevented it.  Also if you knew your partner of 2 years had carried out these murders two of which were two little boys could you have carried on sharing his bed  I would think could be my turn next I'm off no self respecting person could have continued the relationship.

Morning Susan. No way would I have anything to do with anyone who'd allegedly killed two little boys,,let alone sleep with that person afterwards. Oh yes,,she was a fine upstanding woman I must say.! I was all for Junes' description calling her a harlot,,to her face. Thank goodness someone saw through the harridan.

Offline susan

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2012, 10:56:AM »
Hi Moe  Thanks for that just found it Suzette Ford 13 years his senior he was only twenty when he lived with her.  She spoke very well of Jeremy and of his relationship with his Father cannot understand why her statement was not used in Court perhaps Jeremy and his Defence Team were all too complacent.

Offline Moe Cassani

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2012, 11:01:AM »
Susie can you remember the name of Jeremy's previous long term girlfriend. He lived with her for about 3years I think and gave a statement which I can't seem to find now. She would have known Jeremy at least if not better than JM. She would have become aware during their time together if Jeremy showed any signs of personality dissorder.  He wouldnt have been able to hide such traits from her over time.
Maggie, I think, by your comments, you have musunderstood what an anti social personality disorder actually is. I have looked this up and by it very nature the less pleasant aspects are often concealed. It is not apparent even to those closest to the person. Some may notice an arrogance and lack of empathy, but they are very good at hiding it. So to say that his ex-girlfriend would have known is not true. Peter Sutcliffe's wife Sonia had no idea or Harold Shipman's, neither did the girlfriends of Ted Bundy and Levi Bellfield to name but a few. In fact, most of them described their partners as 'loving, kind and/or sweet' 

Offline lookout

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2012, 11:06:AM »
Hi Moe  Thanks for that just found it Suzette Ford 13 years his senior he was only twenty when he lived with her.  She spoke very well of Jeremy and of his relationship with his Father cannot understand why her statement was not used in Court perhaps Jeremy and his Defence Team were all too complacent.

Susan,,there was a lot more that the defence team should/could have done back then. Sadly they've been very weak indeed. I remember reading that episode of how Jeremy was also good to,and with her children.
Suzette had given a gleaming character reference,,,as had a lot of other people who knew Jeremy at that time,,especially those who frequented the local pub.
I bet a lot of those people are in dis-belief.

Offline susan

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2012, 11:14:AM »
Hi lookout the whole Trial beggars belief it seems Jeremy's defence team did not put up much of a defence at all I am in disbelief at the whole police operation and Trial I have read that Jeremy had the opportunity to get rid of evidence but Sheila did not as the police said 4 murders one suicide we will never know what "evidence was disposed of" from the crime scene in all innocence at the time.

Offline lookout

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2012, 11:41:AM »
Hi lookout the whole Trial beggars belief it seems Jeremy's defence team did not put up much of a defence at all I am in disbelief at the whole police operation and Trial I have read that Jeremy had the opportunity to get rid of evidence but Sheila did not as the police said 4 murders one suicide we will never know what "evidence was disposed of" from the crime scene in all innocence at the time.

What really surprises me is that JM was never as readily " loose-tongued " while she was actually with Jeremy,,,as I'd imagine they were up to all sorts at the time,,,but as soon as he dropped her,,,it all came out,,,which to my mind had no relevance to the case at all,as it was just her getting her own back through spite and scorn and it shouldn't have played a part in the trial. Talk about scraping the barrel.
It would have been more to the point to have proved his innocence rather than his guilt,,,which is a much harder thing to do. It's so easy to say that a person's guilty through digging up past dirt,,,but it shouldn't play a part in a conviction. Not clever at all.
We haven't seen,or heard about one piece of evidence to secure a conviction.It beggars belief. 

Offline maggie

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2012, 11:55:AM »
Hi Moe  Thanks for that just found it Suzette Ford 13 years his senior he was only twenty when he lived with her.  She spoke very well of Jeremy and of his relationship with his Father cannot understand why her statement was not used in Court perhaps Jeremy and his Defence Team were all too complacent.
Thanks susie, just having some problems with posting.  The fact is anyone who lives with a person with a personality disorder learns pretty quickly that all is not as it seems.  Not because they talk about killing their families, no psycho would do that they are far too cunning.  There are however traits that can't be hidden in a long term relationship, although to the outside world psychopaths hide behind superficial charm and goodwill.  Sue Ford didn't give the slightest hint of violence or aggression in their relationship.  Mike lived with Jeremy in a very close situation and saw no signs of behaviour which may suggest any sort of personality disorder and is in fact his biggest champion.
Even Julie Mugford never mentioned any sort of long term violent, aggressive behaviour towards her, the only time was after she'd attempted to suffocate him with a pillow and throw things around the room.  I would think he was a man on the edge after the dreadful trauma he had experienced and she got away quite lightly in the circumstances...not that I ever advocate violence in relationships but if he was psychopathic she would have experienced violence before and very possibly of a much more aggressive nature, you would expect her to have been physically frightened of him.  There is no mention of anything like that.  This is my own reasoned suggestion and not fact ;D ;D
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 12:39:PM by maggie »

Offline susan

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2012, 11:56:AM »
Maggie  very well put :)

Offline maggie

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2012, 12:18:PM »
Maggie  very well put :)
Thank you susie, I am well into personality disorders at the moment due to personal reasons.  We are surrounded by such people, between 1% and 4% of the general population have such traits, mainly they are lying, cheating parasites, who enjoy control where ever they can get it.  They rarely kill, however at the same time sadistic killers and premeditated murderers generally have personality disorders or mental illness.  Personality disorders are not particularly seen as mental illness, so they are treated as normal by the courts unless they are so out of control that they need medical treatment for other mental conditions.  People with personality disorders cannot be treated, there is no cure, they're not ill, it's just the way they are born.....I think I'm on the wrong thread...sorry. ;D
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 12:38:PM by maggie »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2012, 01:37:PM »
After reading the above posts this morning I'm afraid many of you are still reminiscing and your flights of fancy are blinkering you from the harsh reality of this case.

The fact is that Jeremy Bamber expressed a sustained wish over a twelve month period to do away with all his family;these thoughts were voiced openly in front of Julie Mugford,the only confidante available to him at that time,although there are numerous witnesses to whom he voiced his loathing of his parents. What happened with Suzette Ford is immaterial and any testimony she had to offer the court would have been irrelevant at best. I have read that she and Jeremy did try for children but that she had three miscarriages-well that is tragic but all the more reason for Jeremy to be envious of Sheila and Colin's children who would only be future rivals and future co-inheritors as he saw it.

Statistically it is far more likely for quiet men with professional jobs to beat their wives or partners than the loutish yobs one hears singing at football matches. It is also statistically proven that schizophrenics are far more likely to harm themselves than they are to harm others. Yet we are led to believe that there were two serial killers at large in one family for a period of three days,that Sheila who had at most handled a gun six years previously yet who disliked them so much she would not even allow her children to own toy guns shot twenty five rounds of ammunition, was involved in a violent confrontation with Ralph(Nevill) in which his jaw was fractured amongst other horrific injuries,shot herself in the kitchen,proceeded upstairs to wash herself,wrote suicide notes without running the slightest sweat or exertion as far as I can tell in the first photograph,all this from a woman who was described by her aunt the previous evening on the telephone as being a "zombie",and who was so unaware of reality that past day that this former glamour model could not even remember to insert a tampon at the correct time of her period.

Let us just remind ourselves of Julie Mugford's testimony,since it appears to have slipped the memory of some members. Jeremy at first planned to burn the house down,making it look as if Nevill had carelessly spilt some alcohol which had caught aflame,yet rejected this plan when he realized the house was underinsured and therefore Jeremy would lose out financially. He then proceeded to put some of Julie's tranquillizers into the beverages of his parents to check if he could drug them,but this scheme also came to nothing as the barbiturates achieved too mild an effect. Jeremy then decided he would have to shoot them all,to which Julie inquired"What about the twins?" to which he answered "They are disturbed";he was also rumoured to have torn up their photograph at the Maida Vale flat in London,which due to Sheila's death he had also inherited.

It has been speculated as to why Julie stayed loyal to a man for so long when she suspected that Jeremy harboured ambitions to kill his family. Of course she was wrong in this regard,and I'm sure that the extensive charity work in which she now engages in her local community in Canada is testament to the distress she now feels about not having acted earlier. Of course there was a danger that Julie would be an accessory after the fact:this is what Jeremy was banking on when he telephoned her on the morning of the murders shortly after his call from Nevill(but before contacting the Police) and also from the call box after the Police had arrived. Jeremy gambled that Julie would say nothing and was trying to keep her on side,which did work for a period of a few weeks,after which he thought he could pay her off when he decided he did not want to marry her,possibly because that was what his mother had wanted and he was going to make a complete break at all costs from their influence under a previous existence.

 Nobody is claiming that Julie comes out of this affair unblemished,but it is striking that not one of her friends has questioned the veracity of her account even after receiving a £25,000 payment from a newspaper for her story. It is a story she has stuck to for 27 years,and it is a true story.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 01:40:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Jane

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2012, 02:51:PM »
Thank you susie, I am well into personality disorders at the moment due to personal reasons.  We are surrounded by such people, between 1% and 4% of the general population have such traits, mainly they are lying, cheating parasites, who enjoy control where ever they can get it.  They rarely kill, however at the same time sadistic killers and premeditated murderers generally have personality disorders or mental illness.  Personality disorders are not particularly seen as mental illness, so they are treated as normal by the courts unless they are so out of control that they need medical treatment for other mental conditions.  People with personality disorders cannot be treated, there is no cure, they're not ill, it's just the way they are born.....I think I'm on the wrong thread...sorry. ;D

Hi, Maggie. As usual, you're one step ahead of me!!!! I was just about to say exactly what you've said.

We all must know one of these people. I, briefly, was in a relationship with one. For a time, I was convinced that he had held the positions he spoke of, but in a very short time his stories became so grandiose that it was obvious to me that he was lying. When I confronted him with it, he admitted that I was right but challenged me to prove him wrong!!!!!!! It gauls me to this day that I couldn't, even had I wanted to. At the time I was relieved to be rid of him. He disturbed my sense of self to the point that felt as if I was standing on wet sand. Surely others must have the same feeling, or do sociopaths latch onto those of us who are so accustomed to living with uncomfortable feelings that we don't recognise them? I was not who he thought I was.

It's an anomaly that whilst personality disorders can't be cured, they can be punished when certain lines are crossed. Those with personality disorders whom I have met aren't murderers. They need to be seen as being at the top of whatever tree they climb and they need an audience to impress. Scratch beneath the surface of the self they wish to portray and often, there's very little there.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Rucked up nightdress beneath Sheila's stage managed body...
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2012, 03:05:PM »
Morning lookout.  My thoughts exactly if Jeremy did murder his family and Julie knew previously he was going to carry out the act she could have prevented it.  Also if you knew your partner of 2 years had carried out these murders two of which were two little boys could you have carried on sharing his bed  I would think could be my turn next I'm off no self respecting person could have continued the relationship.

Mugford knew nothing, she wasn't told anything at all by Jeremy about plans to kill members of his family. The only person who filled her head full of shit, was her best buddy ( let me interview you 30 times so you will get the story right) "Stan"  the man (I can falsify my pocketbook entry, it's no problem) Jones...

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...