Exposing what took place by reference to use of broom handle in reconstruction

[mike tesko]

How utterly amazing that Sheila's body should end up being photograph on that part of the bedroom floor and none of the blood on the bedroom carpet all around her, or underneath her body, managed to get onto the rear of her nightdress - Jeremy must have been really clever to arrange all this (if he was the killer)? Same argument could be applied if there had been an as yet unidentified killer - such precision in the placement and stage managing of Sheila's body was / is somewhat breathtaking in its execution...

[mike tesko]

DCI "Taff" Jones, did not use a broom handle to gauge the distance between the two entry wounds on Sheila's throat and down along her body to see if the fingers of her right hand could reach the trigger, before he postulated that she could have shot herself twice by a reliance upon recoil - he used the rifle (Y) that had been actually used to inflict the second fatal shot under the chin (PV/20), which was moved back and forth from its original position of leaning against the bedroom window:-

 

[Moe Cassani]

DCI "Taff" Jones, did not use a broom handle to gauge the distance between the two entry wounds on Sheila's throat and down along her body to see if the fingers of her right hand could reach the trigger, before he postulated that she could have shot herself twice by a reliance upon recoil - he used the rifle (Y) that had been actually used to inflict the second fatal shot under the chin (PV/20), which was moved back and forth from its original position of leaning against the bedroom window:-

 

Mike I am a little confused here. You say that DCI 'Taff' Jones knew Sheila had been shot twice, yet I am led to belive that the doctor/pathologist on the scene didn't.

[mike tesko]

Mike I am a little confused here. You say that DCI 'Taff' Jones knew Sheila had been shot twice, yet I am led to belive that the doctor/pathologist on the scene didn't.

Police surgeon, Dr Craig, pronounced Sheila as being dead at 8:44am, and DCI "Taff" Jones did not arrive at the scene until about 9:10am. It was around 9:30am when "Taff" got into the bedroom, and saw Sheila with two wounds on her throat - by that stage the mishap with the loaded rifle from the bedroom window had already discharged the fatal bullet PV/19 under her chin which effectively killed Sheila. This was why DCI Jones later behaved like he did towards suggestions put forward by relatives that Jeremy killed Sheila, because DCI Jones knew that Jeremy did not kill Sheila, a police officer involved in  the training exercise did...

[rhodes]

Police surgeon, Dr Craig, pronounced Sheila as being dead at 8:44am, and DCI "Taff" Jones did not arrive at the scene until about 9:10am. It was around 9:30am when "Taff" got into the bedroom, and saw Sheila with two wounds on her throat - by that stage the mishap with the loaded rifle from the bedroom window had already discharged the fatal bullet PV/19 under her chin which effectively killed Sheila. This was why DCI Jones later behaved like he did towards suggestions put forward by relatives that Jeremy killed Sheila, because DCI Jones knew that Jeremy did not kill Sheila, a police officer involved in  the training exercise did...

Your mishap theory is pure bunkum and is not supported by any evidence.  Why do you post such dribble??

[mike tesko]

Your mishap theory is pure bunkum and is not supported by any evidence.  Why do you post such dribble??

The dribble you talk about is in your own head...

[Martin]

The dribble you talk about is in your own head...

Sounds more like Shona than John!

[mike tesko]

Sounds more like Shona than John!

When the police surgeon, Dr Craig, was spoken to by COLP as part of thier 1991 investigation, he was asked by them about why he refers to Sheila only having a solitary wound in his witness statement, and Dr Craig responded that was because that was all he saw at that stage...

Does this not suggest in the stronest possible terms that when he pronounced her as being dead at 8:44am, that she only had one entry wound on her throat at that specific time or point? It is also very interesting that at no point in any witness statement or COLP interview does Dr Craig make reference to him seeing two entry wounds upon Sheila's neck?  Now, considering that Craig is the person who pronounces Sheila as being dead at 8:44am, if there had been two entry wounds on Sheila's neck at that stage, how could he have failed to see them both? 

[mike tesko]

What is also apparent, is that when the police surgeon, Dr Craig, and PI "Bob" Miller attended the scene at 8:44am, and Craig reported onlr seeing a solitary wound upon Sheila Caffells neck, so did Miller - furthermore, on 14th August 1985, at the opening of the inquests into these five deaths, Miller told Deputy Coroner, Mr Thompkin, that police were satisfied that Sheila had shot and killed the others, and that she had then gone on to take her own life by way of a solitary shot under the chin...

To which solitary shot was Miller refering to, the first one inflicted by Sheila's own hand, or the second one inflicted by a police officer?

[mike tesko]

One thing which is not in dispute, is that the pronouncement at 8:44am that Sheila was dead on the far side of the bed with what appeared to be a solitary wound upon her neck, is that Dr Craig had left the scene in the bedroom before PC Bird started to take any photograps at all of Sheila. By looking at the available photographs taken by PC Bird of Sheila, it becomes apparent that no-one practiced CPR on Sheila's body before PC Bird took the first photographs of Sheila on the bed or the floor. This is very interesting for a number of different reasons, depending upon when exactly PC Bird started to take the first pictures of Sheila in the bedroom? He says he did not start taking any photographs until 10 am, but he actually took the first photographs of Sheila on the bed at abiut 9:30am...

Depending upon which starting point you choose to accept it means no-one practiced CPR on Sheila until after a minimum period of 45 minutes after the police surgeon pronounced Sheila as being dead at 8:44am, or worse case scenario, one hour and 15 minutes later...

[mike tesko]

In order to find out the truth about how Sheila died in the bedroom, ask youtselves why there was such a lengthy delay before CPR was applied?

[lookout]

In order to find out the truth about how Sheila died in the bedroom, ask youtselves why there was such a lengthy delay before CPR was applied?

Mike,,,because Sheila was probably threatening the police while they were trying to reason with her. Why the dickens the police won't come forward and say what they saw that morning,,I don't know,,but there's no doubt about it that they're holding back on what actually went on.
When you're threatened by someone who's armed,,,and you're not armed,,what do you do.? Remove that firearm the best way you can without being injured yourself.
What happened at the farmhouse was that there were two rifles in play that night/morning.
Did we ever see a pic of the damaged rifle.? I've never seen it yet.

[Moe Cassani]

Mike,,,because Sheila was probably threatening the police while they were trying to reason with her. Why the dickens the police won't come forward and say what they saw that morning,,I don't know,,but there's no doubt about it that they're holding back on what actually went on.
When you're threatened by someone who's armed,,,and you're not armed,,what do you do.? Remove that firearm the best way you can without being injured yourself.
What happened at the farmhouse was that there were two rifles in play that night/morning.
Did we ever see a pic of the damaged rifle.? I've never seen it yet.

I really can't go along with that at all. What evidence do you have Lookout that Sheila was alive?...I mean evidence that is not a strained version of other evidence such as 'police on conversation with someone inside the farmhouse' That has been totally disproven.
I suspect that Sheila was long dead by the time the police showed up. No-one, not a single person present has ever claimed that they spoke with her. The telephone operator listened to the now open line and says all she could hear was the barking of a dog. Now what makes you think that Sheila was still alive? I am totally bewildered by that statement.

[Roch]

I really can't go along with that at all. What evidence do you have Lookout that Sheila was alive?...I mean evidence that is not a strained version of other evidence such as 'police on conversation with someone inside the farmhouse' That has been totally disproven.I suspect that Sheila was long dead by the time the police showed up. No-one, not a single person present has ever claimed that they spoke with her. The telephone operator listened to the now open line and says all she could hear was the barking of a dog. Now what makes you think that Sheila was still alive? I am totally bewildered by that statement.

What has totally been disproven about that line in the logs?  Nothing has been disproven at all     We will never ever know exactly what that line refers to.

[lookout]

I really can't go along with that at all. What evidence do you have Lookout that Sheila was alive?...I mean evidence that is not a strained version of other evidence such as 'police on conversation with someone inside the farmhouse' That has been totally disproven.
I suspect that Sheila was long dead by the time the police showed up. No-one, not a single person present has ever claimed that they spoke with her. The telephone operator listened to the now open line and says all she could hear was the barking of a dog. Now what makes you think that Sheila was still alive? I am totally bewildered by that statement.

Okay,Moe.Can you tell me why CPR was even mentioned if there was absolute proof that Sheila was dead.? Nobody but nobody attempts CPR on a " visually " dead person ( rigor and livor mortis )