The Firearm

[Mike]

I would think it likely that few people within this forum, the investigating police team or the judiciary at the time would have much knowledge of the powerful .22 Long Rifle used in the murders within the farm house.

I've used these throughout my life and the last thing anyone with any experience of them   would do is to use them within the confines of a domestic residence. Ricochet is violent and unpredictable and you could easily enough end up shooting yourself and, as an experienced user, Jeremy would have been fully aware of this. Subsonic rimfire velocity bullets of this calibre, which would have been the type used at that time, are dangerous within 1.5 miles and the high velocity ones I currently use even further.

The case appeared to finally hinge on the assumption that Sheila would have been unable to have disposed of herself with this weapon with an attenuator fitted to it since it would have been too long. She could however have done so without the 6 inch silencer and there was never any evidence to prove conclusively that it was attached to the rifle at the time of the murders having been discovered sometime later elsewhere. That it had blood on it is immaterial unless it had been identified as that of one of the victims which it was not. It is easy enough to explain blood on a hunting rifle.

The prosecution never did prove the case beyond reasonable doubt  having engineered the evidence to fit the conviction and there are far too many things that simply do not add up. Essex Police proved themselves out of their depth and utterly incompetent and I've always had a gut reaction that justice was not done in this high profile case.

One of the problems has been that too many past Home Secretaries have made derogatory unsubstantiated remarks and the Establishment never likes backing down but instances of wrongful conviction  are rife in this country as illustrated by 'The Bakewell Tart Murder' and Barry George's conviction for shooting Jill Dando both of  which were subsequently overturned years later.

Mike

[mike tesko]

I would think it likely that few people within this forum, the investigating police team or the judiciary at the time would have much knowledge of the powerful .22 Long Rifle used in the murders within the farm house.

I've used these throughout my life and the last thing anyone with any experience of them   would do is to use them within the confines of a domestic residence. Ricochet is violent and unpredictable and you could easily enough end up shooting yourself and, as an experienced user, Jeremy would have been fully aware of this. Subsonic rimfire velocity bullets of this calibre, which would have been the type used at that time, are dangerous within 1.5 miles and the high velocity ones I currently use even further.

The case appeared to finally hinge on the assumption that Sheila would have been unable to have disposed of herself with this weapon with an attenuator fitted to it since it would have been too long. She could however have done so without the 8 inch silencer and there was never any evidence to prove conclusively that it was attached to the rifle at the time of the murders having been discovered sometime later elsewhere. That it had blood on it is immaterial unless it had been identified as that of one of the victims which it was not. It is easy enough to explain blood on a hunting rifle.

The prosecution never did prove the case beyond reasonable doubt  having engineered the evidence to fit the conviction and there are far too many things that simply do not add up. Essex Police proved themselves out of their depth and utterly incompetent and I've always had a gut reaction that justice was not done in this high profile case.

One of the problems has been that too many past Home Secretaries have made derogatory unsubstantiated remarks and the Establishment never likes backing down but instances of wrongful conviction  are rife in this country as illustrated by 'The Bakewell Tart Murder' and Barry George's conviction for shooting Jill Dando both of  which were subsequently overturned years later.

Mike

---------------------------

good post - however, 6 inch long silencer, not 8 inches long....

[Kaldin]

I have a question about the gun. Would the empty cartridges have just fallen straight out onto the floor near the killer's feet or what? I'm a bit puzzled about where the killer was standing in the bedroom (plus there was that cartridge on the kitchen stairs).

[Mike]

Thank you Mike. I have amended the original text accordingly to read 6 inches.  Mike

[Mike]

I have a question about the gun. Would the empty cartridges have just fallen straight out onto the floor near the killer's feet or what? I'm a bit puzzled about where the killer was standing in the bedroom (plus there was that cartridge on the kitchen stairs).

The small brass cases are usually automatically ejected to the side of the gun if it was a bolt action rifle, as I seem to recall it was, but not with great force. Mike

[Kaldin]

I have a question about the gun. Would the empty cartridges have just fallen straight out onto the floor near the killer's feet or what? I'm a bit puzzled about where the killer was standing in the bedroom (plus there was that cartridge on the kitchen stairs).

The small brass cases are usually automatically ejected to the side of the gun if it was a bolt action rifle, as I seem recall it was, but not with great force. Mike

It was a semi-automatic rifle if that helps. I'm not very well up on guns. 

[Mike]

Then what I said is correct. A semi automatic rifle has a magazine underneath and the bullets (5 to 10) are contained therein being pushed up to feed the breech under spring tension. In effect each time  the trigger is pulled  the rifle fires and the spent cartridge is flicked out to the side when you use the bolt to automatically reload for the next shot. Therefore,  wherever the killer had walked in the house, a case would have been ejected, not when the gun was fired, but when it was reloaded and that may well explain the one you mention on the kitchen stairs. I hope that helps. Mike

[mb1]

Nowdays all the weapons would be removed for testing, but we're not comparing like for like when discussing procedures 26 years ago. However, wouldn't the police have had a duty to catalogue all weapons - therefore listing what was in the gun cabinet - and ensure they were safe?

I read discussion about the family removing belongings soon after, including the remaining weapons. Plus the confusion over the various silencers indicated other family members had gun licences.

Did anyone ever record who owned what weapons and where they were kept, particularly if there were no forensic markers proving the bullets were fired by the one gun in the police/soc lab's possession?
I'm sure there have been big cases since the 60s that hinged on guns marks on ammunition. If guns and moderators change bullets I would have wanted to know why this gun/moderator hadn't.

[Kaldin]

Then what I said is correct. A semi automatic rifle has a magazine underneath and the bullets (5 to 10) are contained therein being pushed up to feed the breech under spring tension. In effect each time  the trigger is pulled  the rifle fires and the spent cartridge is flicked out to the side when you use the bolt to automatically reload for the next shot. Therefore,  wherever the killer had walked in the house, a case would have been ejected, not when the gun was fired, but when it was reloaded and that may well explain the one you mention on the kitchen stairs. I hope that helps. Mike

Thank you! I just wanted to know how close the spent cartridges would be to the person using the gun.

In this diagram of the bedroom, the cartridges seem to be concentrated near the bed and some near the door, so I wondered where the killer was when he/she fired the gun.


http://jeremybamber.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=225.0;attach=546;image

[Janet (Formerly known as Takeshi)]

Thanks Mike. Your posts about the gun have been really helpful.

[Kaldin]

I'm still confused. Would the killer have had to do anything to line up the next bullet? I don't quite understand when the cartridges are ejected.

[mb1]

Very interesting diagram. Makes Sheila's death/assault look separate from that of June's... yet both in the same room, and we're lead to believe that Neville was shot here as well at some point.
The two scenes within a scene would seem to argue different time frames for the shootings.
Were both June and Sheila incapacitated, Neville pursued, then the killer returned to complete the task?
Or June incapacitated, Neville pursued, Sheila returns to finally kill her mother then lies down on the 'undisturbed' side of the room to kill herself.

Which parent usually slept which side of the bed? Interestingly there was research done some years ago which revealed a tendency for the men in heterosexual partnerships to sleep on the side of the bed nearest the door.

Excuse my ignorance, but I'm confused on one point. What does DRH actually mean? Notice only some of the 'circles' have shell drawings. These circles can't all be shell casings as the numbers reach the 40s yet only 25 bullets were fired.   

[Kaldin]

Very interesting diagram. Makes Sheila's death/assault look separate from that of June's... yet both in the same room, and we're lead to believe that Neville was shot here as well at some point.
The two scenes within a scene would seem to argue different time frames for the shootings.
Were both June and Sheila incapacitated, Neville pursued, then the killer returned to complete the task?
Or June incapacitated, Neville pursued, Sheila returns to finally kill her mother then lies down on the 'undisturbed' side of the room to kill herself.

Which parent usually slept which side of the bed? Interestingly there was research done some years ago which revealed a tendency for the men in heterosexual partnerships to sleep on the side of the bed nearest the door.

Excuse my ignorance, but I'm confused on one point. What does DRH actually mean? Notice only some of the 'circles' have shell drawings. These circles can't all be shell casings as the numbers reach the 40s yet only 25 bullets were fired.

Mike said the DRHs with a black bit through them were bullets rather than cartridges. Why they gave bullets the same numbering system as the cartridges is a mystery to me. Also, there seems to be two cartridges labelled DRH7.

I presume the locations are approximate because at least one of cartridges appears to be on top of the wardrobe. 

There also appears to be a cartridge case on the main stairs, which has not been mentioned anywhere, so I don't understand that one.

I think June slept on the side of the bed nearest the door. That's the side where the blood was on the bed.

I'm also confused about the order in which the shootings happened.

[Mike]

Sorry Kaldin if I've failed to make things clear.

An automatic rifle reloads itself and ejects the spent cartridge when it is fired. The Bamber gun was semi automatic which meant, after it is fired, the empty case remains in the breech until the operator manually pulls back the bolt, at which point the spent case is ejected, prior to then pushing the bolt forward to reload for the next shot thus bringing another bullet up from the magazine and simultaneously cocking the trigger. In effect the empty cases are not ejected where the shot has been fired with a semi automatic. I'm sure you will have seen this action on TV and heard the distinctive sound. Mike

[Kaldin]

Sorry Kaldin if I've failed to make things clear.

An automatic rifle reloads itself and ejects the spent cartridge when it is fired. The Bamber gun was semi automatic which meant, after it is fired, the empty case remains in the breech until the operator manually pulls back the bolt, at which point the spent case is ejected, prior to then pushing the bolt forward to reload for the next shot thus bringing another bullet up from the magazine and simultaneously cocking the trigger. In effect the empty cases are not ejected where the shot has been fired with a semi automatic. I'm sure you will have seen this action on TV and heard the distinctive sound.

Oh. I thought that the operator didn't have to pull back the bolt to fire it. Don't they just keep pulling the trigger?

Like I said, I know very little about guns.