Television documentary material

[Jackiepreece]

Are you saying that it would be easy for someone to tell the difference between Neville and Jeremy's voice because some people on here are saying Jeremy could have made two calls to the police.
I also wondered if anyone over the years has done a proper reconstruction like showing things in detail as the bike ride Jeremy supposedly took.
The other point I have queried is much was made of Jeremy was after buying a porche but I read somewhere the balfours had money troubles do you know if that was true

[andrea]

jeremy tells julie severaltimes before the murders that he plans to wipe out his family, yet when she recieved the phone call from him in the early hrs of the morning she tells him not to worry and go back to bed? i find that strange.

[mb1]

Are you saying that it would be easy for someone to tell the difference between Neville and Jeremy's voice because some people on here are saying Jeremy could have made two calls to the police.
I also wondered if anyone over the years has done a proper reconstruction like showing things in detail as the bike ride Jeremy supposedly took.
The other point I have queried is much was made of Jeremy was after buying a porche but I read somewhere the balfours had money troubles do you know if that was true

Check out the phone thread. Kaladin's spot on re phone calls.

There was one non-999 call made to the police station by JB. The officer recorded that JB phoned, stating his father had called saying the daughter had gone beserk with a gun. That officer put JB on hold, then phoned the control room where the officer wrote father says daughter has gone berserk with a gun.
One phone call, one message repeated chinese whisper style from one officer to another.

[Sparkfilms]

For Andrea,

I have long eliminated anything that Julie Mugford said.

It's a great shame Stan Jones could not see beyond his bycycle handle bars where that young lady is concerned.

Again, I will repeat, both Jeremy and Julie were bad news in those days.

As far as I can see, Julie may well have been in a possible corner as an accomplice if she was aware of her boyfriend's plans to wipe out his family.

You would have thought that if she had really believed that Jeremy was going to kill his family that she would have the common sense to safeguard her position by informing the police.

The word in Colchester was that Julie's long and drawn out statements were made with the help of a close friend, perhaps her story was more the work of a third party than herself, and that's why she kept making a complete hash of her statements to the police - in short, she may well have been lying all the way through.

More soon, feeding my dog and cat.

[Sparkfilms]

For Jackie,

The bike thing. The family members spent many hours trying to re-construct the bike ride.

They could often be seen crawling along on all fours looking for matching tyre tracks and the like.

Nothing could be found by the young farmers, middle aged farmers or any of the police that linked the bike.

We took a look at the bike routes, it seems way off the mark.

The car thing, that's what Mark E Smith would rightly describe as 'clutter'.

( I had those kind of cars though ).

 

[Sparkfilms]

Something else for Jackie,

Some of the locals thought the family members who were crawling around in the lanes surrounding White House Farm were plain clothed police officers from another force, such was their dedication to the cause.

Their gun cupboard find moved the case 180 degrees.

Another such find and they might have been up for some kind of reward, but I suppose they got their 'reward' anyway.

The family won out, and Julie Mugford too.

[Pete0001]

Check out the phone thread. Kaladin's spot on re phone calls.

There was one non-999 call made to the police station by JB. The officer recorded that JB phoned, stating his father had called saying the daughter had gone beserk with a gun. That officer put JB on hold, then phoned the control room where the officer wrote father says daughter has gone berserk with a gun.
One phone call, one message repeated chinese whisper style from one officer to another.

Bang on... exactly how I see the phone call... One call that due to an error in time logged suddenly became two calls each by a different person.... my feeling is there is very little evidence if at all to back that theory up. It was just an error in time logging due to station clock being fast.

[mb1]

Something else for Jackie,

Some of the locals thought the family members who were crawling around in the lanes surrounding White House Farm were plain clothed police officers from another force, such was their dedication to the cause.

Their gun cupboard find moved the case 180 degrees.

Another such find and they might have been up for some kind of reward, but I suppose they got their 'reward' anyway.

The family won out, and Julie Mugford too.

"Crawling around" merely proves that the family were very concerned by
          i) The police investigation
or
          ii) The idea that Sheila was capable of murdering both her parents and children
or
          iii) Both
It proves they were actively looking for evidence. So would I if it had been my family and an ill member was being blamed for something so monstrous and unexpected while the police were busy sitting on their hands.

[Jackiepreece]

Mr sparkfilms

 When you said Julie and Jeremy were a bad lot I did read that Julie had been in trouble for cheque forgery was she in trouble before she met Jeremy and sort of encouraged him and I am fascinated that someone who new a murder was being planned supported the murderer after the killing robbed a caravan park forged cheques etc  then hit the jackpot with the newspaper pay off is now a headteacher.  Good work.  I bet the parents at the school she is a teacher at don't know her history

I definitely don't think Jeremy is an angel but I have read lots about people that knew him and I don't think he murdered his whole in fact he could be in the position he is in just because his behaviour in front of the media jm was a hundred times cleverer than him she set her self up for life and if she did stitch Jeremy up how does she sleep at night

[Sparkfilms]

For Pete,

I have to admit that if I was in a house with my wife and grandchildren and my daughter ( step-daughter ) who was clearly unstable at the time, was running around with a gun, then just about the last thing I would consider is phoning my son, the police or anyone else.

My only focus would be to somehow disarm her, get the situation under control, and maybe then phone Jeremy.

This is an area of concern.

I've spoken to the CCRC and they seem to be unmoving on the issues raised.

I really thought the Sutherst study of the photographic evidence of the scratch marks could pull off this appeal for Jeremy's team, but when I mentioned it to the CCRC I was very quickly rebuffed.

[Jackiepreece]

To mb1
I take it you have read the doctors reports what bambi said about your children and you have read what Colin caffell said when he opened the door to the police something like she's done it then

Everyone keeps forgetting that the police were quite happy with their investigation at first definitely thinking it was a suicide why didn't they question if she was capable of controlling a gun. That's why evidence was destroyed that could have been vital

When Julie mugford went to the police and the relatives said they found the moderator Essex police found they they had this massive murder case on their hands and we have seen the length the police go to so they can say they have solved a case (rachel nickel the Honeytrap). I bet the police could not believe their luck when the press snapped Jeremy smiling. It was a 10-2 majority and I bet a lot if jurors wavered one way or the other. I don't know what happened that night but I think the investigation stinks and Essex police should be ashamed of themselves.  Julie mugford got a flat out of it the family got all the money and one of the policeman got a new job dossing around at the families caravan park and Jeremy got life great British justice!!!!

[Kaldin]

For Pete,

I have to admit that if I was in a house with my wife and grandchildren and my daughter ( step-daughter ) who was clearly unstable at the time, was running around with a gun, then just about the last thing I would consider is phoning my son, the police or anyone else.

My only focus would be to somehow disarm her, get the situation under control, and maybe then phone Jeremy.

This is an area of concern.

I've spoken to the CCRC and they seem to be unmoving on the issues raised.

I really thought the Sutherst study of the photographic evidence of the scratch marks could pull off this appeal for Jeremy's team, but when I mentioned it to the CCRC I was very quickly rebuffed.

One of the most difficult things is trying to work out what happened in that house and in what order, regardless of who the killer was. The fact that Neville was in the kitchen and had that fight really confuses it all.

Re your last point, I just don't see how there could be any close up photos of the underside of the mantlepiece which were taken the day after the murders, and therefore I don't see how anyone could say that the scratches weren't there at the time.

[Sparkfilms]

Good morning Kaldin,

As there were no paint flakes / debris on the floor this did seem to back up Sutherst's study of the area.

At least, that's what I took from it.

Sutherst is a world expert in photographic study and I was inclined to go along with his findings.

[Kaldin]

Good morning Kaldin,

As there were no paint flakes / debris on the floor this did seem to back up Sutherst's study of the area.

At least, that's what I took from it.

Sutherst is a world expert in photographic study and I was inclined to go along with his findings.

I'm not disrespecting Mr Sutherst, and I think this is all interesting, but re for paint flakes on the floor, he was looking at the mat directly in front of the cooker, but there's some carpet to the right of that which is darker, so was he looking in the right place? Mike did a diagram to show that the scratch marks were on the right side of the underneath of the mantleshelf - ie, above where the darker carpet was.

[Pete0001]

For Pete,

I have to admit that if I was in a house with my wife and grandchildren and my daughter ( step-daughter ) who was clearly unstable at the time, was running around with a gun, then just about the last thing I would consider is phoning my son, the police or anyone else.

My only focus would be to somehow disarm her, get the situation under control, and maybe then phone Jeremy.

Yes, true... As I've said before some people are not the sort to involve outside help, they deal with their own problems in their own way.
Having the Police come to the farm to investigate why sheila was waving a gun about would have had dire consequences to Sheila's future and I'm sure Neville would have known that... from what I've read Neville and Sheila had a good relationship.

If you choose to believe that the 2 phone calls theory is just that, a theory, then the whole case falls down to JB's word that Neville phoned him and told him what he told the Police.

I do still believe that the logs of the phone calls are describing just the one call, but documented differently and with a time error.