Author Topic: Sheila committed suicide?  (Read 20690 times)

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-Harters-

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #90 on: July 12, 2012, 10:03:AM »
Morning Hartley. Just out of interest, what would it take to convince you of the possibility of Jeremy's innocence?

Evidence that he was actually innocent would probably be a good starting point, and there lies the problem.

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #91 on: July 12, 2012, 12:59:PM »
Evidence that he was actually innocent would probably be a good starting point, and there lies the problem.

So does that mean that you would evidence of his actual innocence, only as evidence of the possibility of his innocence?

-Harters-

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #92 on: July 12, 2012, 01:22:PM »
So does that mean that you would evidence of his actual innocence, only as evidence of the possibility of his innocence?

Nothing I have seen indicates that he is innocent.

As he is a convicted multiple murderer, I would need to see evidence indicating that he was actually innocent, in order to entertain the idea.

It's worth noting that every single piece of evidence put forward by the defence, oron this forum or elsewhere, in an attempt to indicate innocence, has, once scrutinised, turned out to be nothing of the kind.

I don't believe in the Loch Ness Monster either, but again that could change if somebody provided proof indicating that it did.

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #93 on: July 12, 2012, 01:34:PM »
Nothing I have seen indicates that he is innocent.




So does that mean that you have seen nothing to indicate Sheila committed the act?

-Harters-

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #94 on: July 12, 2012, 02:10:PM »

So does that mean that you have seen nothing to indicate Sheila committed the act?

No, it means that I have seen nothing which indicates that a convicted multiple murderer serving a whole life tariff (due to the substantial premeditation, planning and carrying out five counts of murder including that of two children), to be innocent of the crimes he has been convicted of.

Neither has the CCRC on numerous occasions, and neither has the Court of Appeal twice.

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #95 on: July 12, 2012, 02:50:PM »
No, it means that I have seen nothing which indicates that a convicted multiple murderer serving a whole life tariff (due to the substantial premeditation, planning and carrying out five counts of murder including that of two children), to be innocent of the crimes he has been convicted of.

Neither has the CCRC on numerous occasions, and neither has the Court of Appeal twice.

Thank you for your response, although I don't feel you have addressed my last question.

With reference to the CCRC and CoA, I do wonder, had they known of Dr Ferguson's  concerns regarding the adequacy of her care and meds, and that he didn't rule out the possibility her her being readmitted, if their response might have been different.

-Harters-

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #96 on: July 12, 2012, 03:23:PM »
Thank you for your response, although I don't feel you have addressed my last question.

With reference to the CCRC and CoA, I do wonder, had they known of Dr Ferguson's  concerns regarding the adequacy of her care and meds, and that he didn't rule out the possibility her her being readmitted, if their response might have been different.

That's because you changed the question I guess, but no, there is nothing which indicates that Sheila was responsible.

In the first instance, I'm not convinced the CCRC and CoA were unaware of Dr Fergusons expert opinions, but I doubt their decisions would have been any different either way. Her concerns either way are neither evidence of guilt nor of innocence in respect of Sheila being the culprit.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #97 on: July 12, 2012, 05:56:PM »

So does that mean that you have seen nothing to indicate Sheila committed the act?
You're wasting your breath April. The BGB are friends of the family and are therefore not interested in anything that indicates Bamber to be innocent. They are plainly and simply governed entirely by prejudice. I've already demonstrated this on numerous occasions. They ain't interested in TRUTH. Because even thinking in those terms they will forfeit their friendship with their friends

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #98 on: July 12, 2012, 07:42:PM »
You're wasting your breath April. The BGB are friends of the family and are therefore not interested in anything that indicates Bamber to be innocent. They are plainly and simply governed entirely by prejudice. I've already demonstrated this on numerous occasions. They ain't interested in TRUTH. Because even thinking in those terms they will forfeit their friendship with their friends


Dear Grahame, thank you SO much for information of which I was entirely unaware. You have made thinks so much clearer for me.

Offline Janet (Formerly known as Takeshi)

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #99 on: July 14, 2012, 02:20:AM »
The photograph of Sheila on the bed is undignified, and not for sale at any price...

No body wants you to sell it Mike we just want you to give it to JB's defence team so they can evaluate it's importance in JB's case. I don't even believe you have such a photo you just like the attention people give you because they believe you are some kind of expert on the case. HELLO people MT has a hidden agenda take everything he says with a pound of salt.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #100 on: July 14, 2012, 02:52:AM »
That's because you changed the question I guess, but no, there is nothing which indicates that Sheila was responsible.

In the first instance, I'm not convinced the CCRC and CoA were unaware of Dr Fergusons expert opinions, but I doubt their decisions would have been any different either way. Her concerns either way are neither evidence of guilt nor of innocence in respect of Sheila being the culprit.

No psychiatrist especially one who makes a lucrative living out of private practice is going to admit in a court of law that he got it wrong. In very extreme cases women or men for that matter do kill their children,and in the case of someone afflicted with schizophrenia it's not their fault but can be blamed on the illness,which is an inability to separate fantasy from reality.

With nobody else in the picture Sheila was the obvious culprit and that's the direction the investigation took in the early stages. But after everything which came out about Jeremy wishing his family dead,him becoming the sole beneficiary of the estate and his behaviour and attitude after the deaths let alone the silencer evidence it was the duty of the Director of Public Prosecutions to investigate,and ultimately a jury did find him guilty.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 02:55:AM by Steve_uk »

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #101 on: July 14, 2012, 06:48:AM »
But after everything which came out about Jeremy wishing his family dead,him becoming the sole beneficiary of the estate and his behaviour and attitude after the deaths let alone the silencer evidence it was the duty of the Director of Public Prosecutions to investigate,and ultimately a jury did find him guilty.

Jeremy was never the sole beneficiary, how could he be when the time of death for his parents was / were not known? Also there was obnly the "Verbal" evidence of Robert Boutflour, and Mugford, to suggest he wanted to kill his family - in a nutshell, they just made it up to put Jeremy in a poor light...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #102 on: July 14, 2012, 08:39:AM »
No psychiatrist especially one who makes a lucrative living out of private practice is going to admit in a court of law that he got it wrong. In very extreme cases women or men for that matter do kill their children,and in the case of someone afflicted with schizophrenia it's not their fault but can be blamed on the illness,which is an inability to separate fantasy from reality.

With nobody else in the picture Sheila was the obvious culprit and that's the direction the investigation took in the early stages. But after everything which came out about Jeremy wishing his family dead,him becoming the sole beneficiary of the estate and his behaviour and attitude after the deaths let alone the silencer evidence it was the duty of the Director of Public Prosecutions to investigate,and ultimately a jury did find him guilty.

Steve, good morning. It sounds as if you are suggesting that psychiatrists making a lucrative living fro private practice go into courts prepared to be economical with the truth. If, as a result, any innocent person is convicted, the psychiatrists reputation remains untarnished. Re your comments about schizophrenics, personally, Idon't believe I've ever put the words "Sheila" and "murders" into the same sentence, because, as a schizophrenic, SHE cannot be held culpable. The "personality" which had temporarily invaded and taken control of her was responsible. The word "possession" has fallen out of favour in modern psychiatry, but it nonetheless, says very succinctly, what it is about.

I can see an irony in your second paragraph, because when you take Jeremy out of the equation, let's assume he should have died with his family, your words apply just as surely to the wider family who were known not to like him, and were probably concerned for their future lifestyle and finances when the Bank of Bamber changed hands.  Alright, I grant you his behaviour wasn't admirable but I doubt that theirs was much more so, and it now seems that the silencer evidence, which they bought into play, may be flawed. I can't help but feel, that today, if a whole family ganged up, to a man, about another family member, they, and their possible motives would warrent closer investigation.

Offline lookout

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #103 on: July 14, 2012, 09:18:AM »
Steve, good morning. It sounds as if you are suggesting that psychiatrists making a lucrative living fro private practice go into courts prepared to be economical with the truth. If, as a result, any innocent person is convicted, the psychiatrists reputation remains untarnished. Re your comments about schizophrenics, personally, Idon't believe I've ever put the words "Sheila" and "murders" into the same sentence, because, as a schizophrenic, SHE cannot be held culpable. The "personality" which had temporarily invaded and taken control of her was responsible. The word "possession" has fallen out of favour in modern psychiatry, but it nonetheless, says very succinctly, what it is about.

I can see an irony in your second paragraph, because when you take Jeremy out of the equation, let's assume he should have died with his family, your words apply just as surely to the wider family who were known not to like him, and were probably concerned for their future lifestyle and finances when the Bank of Bamber changed hands.  Alright, I grant you his behaviour wasn't admirable but I doubt that theirs was much more so, and it now seems that the silencer evidence, which they bought into play, may be flawed. I can't help but feel, that today, if a whole family ganged up, to a man, about another family member, they, and their possible motives would warrent closer investigation.



Good morning April. What a great post. Says it all really,,in a nutshell,,,if only the jury,etc had known about the family background and its possible implications in their behaviour towards Jeremy,it could well have made a difference,,but sadly,that didn't arise until 10 years after the tragedy,,where they showed themselves to be the very description that they'd given to Jeremy,,,and that was greed.

Offline Jane

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Re: Sheila committed suicide?
« Reply #104 on: July 14, 2012, 09:27:AM »


Good morning April. What a great post. Says it all really,,in a nutshell,,,if only the jury,etc had known about the family background and its possible implications in their behaviour towards Jeremy,it could well have made a difference,,but sadly,that didn't arise until 10 years after the tragedy,,where they showed themselves to be the very description that they'd given to Jeremy,,,and that was greed.

Morning lookout and Thankyou. Think I've got my mo-jo back after last nights lunacy!!!!!