Author Topic: 2002 Appeal  (Read 3446 times)

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simong

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2002 Appeal
« on: February 12, 2011, 07:13:PM »
Hi,

I was reading the forum last night and have followed this case for years. Someone posted the 2002 Appeal transcript last night but i cannot find it again today. Could someone post the link up or mail me the link again.

Also, not sure if this is possible but does anyone have a plan of the house with locations of bodies from the crime scene. Really would appreciate any help on this.

Regards
Si

Offline Kaldin

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Re: 2002 Appeal
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2011, 07:18:PM »
Hi,

I was reading the forum last night and have followed this case for years. Someone posted the 2002 Appeal transcript last night but i cannot find it again today. Could someone post the link up or mail me the link again.

Also, not sure if this is possible but does anyone have a plan of the house with locations of bodies from the crime scene. Really would appreciate any help on this.

Regards
Si

This is the Appeal document.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2002/2912.htm



crooner1

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Re: 2002 Appeal
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2011, 08:38:PM »
mike would ewen smith jeremys ex lawyer have sat on the ccrc panel, if so surely thats not right?

Offline mike tesko

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Re: 2002 Appeal
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2011, 08:44:PM »
mike would ewen smith jeremys ex lawyer have sat on the ccrc panel, if so surely thats not right?
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Do you not think that the other Commissioners would not have sought answers directly from Ewen Smith about features of the case, and in particular points raised by Jeremy in his application?

I personally do not think Ewen would have taken part in the process in the role as a Commissioner, but his advice may have indirectly been sought...

I think it would be fair to say that Jeremy has made some sort of a complaint about Ewen Smith, which might not have worked in his favor...
« Last Edit: February 12, 2011, 08:51:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

crooner1

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Re: 2002 Appeal
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2011, 08:46:PM »
thanks for that mike

andrea

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Re: 2002 Appeal
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2011, 11:02:PM »
what was the complaint mike? do you know?

simong

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Re: 2002 Appeal
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2011, 11:51:PM »
There are a few things that don't quite add up to me. In Nevill Bamber's wounds in the post mortem 2 to the right side and 2 to the top of the head. 1 to the left elbow, 1 to the left shoulder, 1 to the left side of the lip and 1 to the left of the lower jaw. In total 13 cartridge cases found inside and outside and around the bedroom, 8 in the boys bedroom, 1 on the stairs leading up from the kitchen and 3 in the kitchen.

There is an apparent violent struggle in the kitchen, his body is found in the kitchen. He has a broken nose, 2 black eyes, linear bruising as a supposed consequence of being hit with a long blunt instrument (possibly a gun).

I am playing a bit of an Agatha Christie here but the shell case on the stairs is presumably one of Nevills wounds as his body is the only one found downstairs. I presume he receives that on the way down the stairs and then a violent struggle in the kitchen. So he has been shot 5 times (let the reader decide what wounds happened where) and then has a violent struggle. Surely there would be Nevills blood all over the Murderer as the murderer deems it necessary to have to hit Nevill so violently that he receives two black eyes and a broken nose. The burn marks to the back also don't make much sense to me either and then the murderer fires 3 more shots in the kitchen to finish Nevill off.

I am also assuming that the murderer has gone downstairs to get ammunition and re-load, then why is there a shell case on the stairs? So thinking the other way round, Nevill is shot going back up the stairs? Why would he be going back upstairs after a violent struggle downstairs when he has been shot 3 times? The magazine of the gun takes a maximum of 10 rounds, place the shell casings found in various places, the reloads required, the violent struggle and a lot of it doesn't add up.

I hope i have explained this properly and the points i am trying to make!!! Any thoughts from any budding Agatha appreciated
« Last Edit: February 12, 2011, 11:54:PM by simong »

Offline mb1

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Re: 2002 Appeal
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2011, 12:02:AM »
Is there a blood spatter map of the house?
Just think the sequence is wrong. Horrendous as it is to walk in a killer's shoes, that it what has to be done to get to the truth. Anyone intending to kill the entire family would start with NB as - despite his age - he appears to have been a big healthy male and the most able to retaliate.
Presumably the poor children were asleep when killed, so not woken by gunshots or a violent struggle.

simong

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Re: 2002 Appeal
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2011, 12:08:AM »
Again as Agatha, the 3 circular burn marks to the back i presume are from the end of the barrel and must have been hot having been fired. I also assume that this is Nevill being forced from one position in the house to another with a gun in his back.

Offline mb1

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Re: 2002 Appeal
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2011, 12:24:AM »
Is that idea documented anywhere in the original case? It certainly makes sense. Aggy and Poirot would be proud!
Think I need to do some in-depth reading beyond the forum to get a balanced view of the evidence. Am going to really read the 2002 Appeal that was posted here - thanks!

simong

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Re: 2002 Appeal
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2011, 12:39:AM »
I don't think so MB1. On the blood question, It states that Nevill Bambers or the twins blood was found in the kitchen and assuming the boys were killed in their bed, the appeal states it must have been Nevill Bambers. I think the forensic part of the investigation was pretty poor and is commented on in the appeal. They seem to have made their minds up almost immediately that it was a murder/suicide and the scene was not properly investigated.

Offline mb1

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Re: 2002 Appeal
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2011, 12:55:AM »
Thanks SimonG. You've added some interesting and well thought-out conclusions: good great cells for this late/early hour.
Taking your lead and following the evidence. Have downloaded Appeal - off for some heavy reading! Who needs John Grisham...
 

Offline mike tesko

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Re: 2002 Appeal
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2011, 09:29:AM »
what was the complaint mike? do you know?
-----------------------------------------------

Professional negligence, I think...

I believe Jeremy complianed that Ewen was withholding information, pictures and other stuff from him...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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Re: 2002 Appeal
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2011, 09:48:AM »
There are a few things that don't quite add up to me. In Nevill Bamber's wounds in the post mortem 2 to the right side and 2 to the top of the head. 1 to the left elbow, 1 to the left shoulder, 1 to the left side of the lip and 1 to the left of the lower jaw. In total 13 cartridge cases found inside and outside and around the bedroom, 8 in the boys bedroom, 1 on the stairs leading up from the kitchen and 3 in the kitchen.

There is an apparent violent struggle in the kitchen, his body is found in the kitchen. He has a broken nose, 2 black eyes, linear bruising as a supposed consequence of being hit with a long blunt instrument (possibly a gun).

I am playing a bit of an Agatha Christie here but the shell case on the stairs is presumably one of Nevills wounds as his body is the only one found downstairs. I presume he receives that on the way down the stairs and then a violent struggle in the kitchen. So he has been shot 5 times (let the reader decide what wounds happened where) and then has a violent struggle. Surely there would be Nevills blood all over the Murderer as the murderer deems it necessary to have to hit Nevill so violently that he receives two black eyes and a broken nose. The burn marks to the back also don't make much sense to me either and then the murderer fires 3 more shots in the kitchen to finish Nevill off.

I am also assuming that the murderer has gone downstairs to get ammunition and re-load, then why is there a shell case on the stairs? So thinking the other way round, Nevill is shot going back up the stairs? Why would he be going back upstairs after a violent struggle downstairs when he has been shot 3 times? The magazine of the gun takes a maximum of 10 rounds, place the shell casings found in various places, the reloads required, the violent struggle and a lot of it doesn't add up.

I hope i have explained this properly and the points i am trying to make!!! Any thoughts from any budding Agatha appreciated

What happened to Neville is perhaps the biggest mystery. The police say he was shot in the bedroom - they found cartridges there which don't account for June or Sheila's wounds, but Mike says he was not shot there. He had a fight in the kitchen, and he was shot dead in the kitchen. I agree that the cartridge on the stairs is strange. There was also blood on the wallpaper in the hall just outside the kitchen which has been linked to Neville.