The silencer, hand swab, and scratch marks on the aga, Conspiracy...

[mike tesko]

The silencer, hand swab, and scratch marks on the aga, Conspiracy...

They tampered with the Silencer, hand swab and marks made on the aga evidence, so that they could prosecute Jeremy Bamber for these murders...

[mike tesko]

The silencer, hand swab, and scratch marks on the aga, Conspiracy...

They tampered with the Silencer, hand swab and marks made on the aga evidence, so that they could prosecute Jeremy Bamber for these murders...

They went to these lengths so that the prosecution could argue that Sheila could not have loaded bullets into the gun and killed herself, and that the silencer was fitted to the guns barrel when Ralph and Sheila were both killed...

[Roch]

They went to these lengths so that the prosecution could argue that Sheila could not have loaded bullets into the gun and killed herself, and that the silencer was fitted to the guns barrel when Ralph and Sheila were both killed...

Totally agree.  Some of our counterparts will argue that this was done out of necessity because they had duffed the crime scene in the first instance, i.e. fabrication on the part of EP does not equate to innocence on the part of JB.

Who was the mastermind behind all of this?  Was it a collective or did someone in particular drive it all?

[Bridget]

Totally agree.  Some of our counterparts will argue that this was done out of necessity because they had duffed the crime scene in the first instance, i.e. fabrication on the part of EP does not equate to innocence on the part of JB.

Who was the mastermind behind all of this?  Was it a collective or did someone in particular drive it all?

If you're counting me as a counterpart that's not my argument. There seem to be perfectly reasonable explanations for all of the issues presented.

[mike tesko]

If you're counting me as a counterpart that's not my argument. There seem to be perfectly reasonable explanations for all of the issues presented.

These reasonable type explanations which could be avsilable are the very reasons why MOJ occur...

Same old excuses used by the agencies of the state and its supporters. According to them its alright to tamper with evidence contained in one file (SC/688/85) and edit the contents of witness statements by the DPP without the witneds even being present, and in some instances it is alright for the DPP to make fresh statements for witneesses without the knowlege of a witness, and it is alright for the police to alter and change exhibit reference details to fool the lab' into examining articles which have previously been rejected at the lab', and it is alright to stage manage a crime  scene' to 
withhold photographs taken by the police themselves, so that they can pin the blame on someone like Jeremy...

[Patti]

I think it is ludicrous to think that Sheila could not use a rifle. Folk say she was too small...She was 5ft 7"...small is about 5ft. A child could have used that rifle, it was light, had a very small recoil and easy to load.

In court they tried to establish that she could not have loaded the rifle for the third time and that the 10th bullet was difficult to load in the magazine....This is not so. The German company tests these rifles and they had never had one complaint about their guns being hard to load. This was never discussed at the trial, so the jury again was not aware of it....So many things the jury were not made aware of....

[Bridget]

I think it is ludicrous to think that Sheila could not use a rifle. Folk say she was too small...She was 5ft 7"...small is about 5ft. A child could have used that rifle, it was light, had a very small recoil and easy to load.

In court they tried to establish that she could not have loaded the rifle for the third time and that the 10th bullet was difficult to load in the magazine....This is not so. The German company tests these rifles and they had never had one complaint about their guns being hard to load. This was never discussed at the trial, so the jury again was not aware of it....So many things the jury were not made aware of....

I don't recall anyone saying Sheila was too small to use the rifle. It is her lack of experience or knowledge of guns which is the issue.

The jury were given the opportunity to load the actual magazine themselves, so it doesn't really matter what manufacturers say.

[Patti]

I don't recall anyone saying Sheila was too small to use the rifle. It is her lack of experience or knowledge of guns which is the issue.

The jury were given the opportunity to load the actual magazine themselves, so it doesn't really matter what manufacturers say.

Morning Bridget No way she lacked experience, she was brought up on a farm surrounded by guns and was a beater.  Shelia attended shoots....It's not rocket science how to have used that rifle, a child could have used it...The magazine was easy to load, flick the small recoil and shoot...I could use it. One would only have to see it loaded once and it is something that you would remember.

Were they, where does it say that? Don't forget the rifle was damaged. 

[Bridget]

Morning Bridget No way she lacked experience, she was brought up on a farm surrounded by guns and was a beater.  Shelia attended shoots....It's not rocket science how to have used that rifle, a child could have used it...The magazine was easy to load, flick the small recoil and shoot...I could use it. One would only have to see it loaded once and it is something that you would remember.

Were they, where does it say that? Don't forget the rifle was damaged. 

Being brought up on a farm doesn't make you experienced with guns, and neither does beating.

Read paragraph 224 onwards in the appeal re the loading of the magazine.

[Patti]

Being brought up on a farm doesn't make you experienced with guns, and neither does beating.

Read paragraph 224 onwards in the appeal re the loading of the magazine.

I don't need to read it Bridget, because the German company was never contacted in 1986...there was no problems reloading that type of rifle and it was used world wide and still is....

Being brought up on a farm with guns....Bridget does not make you experienced, no,  but surely she would have witnessed the use of them...even as a young girl...

When I was about 5 maybe 6 years old, I used to go rabbiting with my dad who had a 12 bore...It was a heavy gun, but today...i could tell you how to use one and would have no problem loading one. I would have no problem with the rifle either....come on be honest, could you load a magazine and insert it into the rifle, flick the recoil and pull the trigger....you only need to see it being loaded once....

[Patti]

Being brought up on a farm doesn't make you experienced with guns, and neither does beating.

Read paragraph 224 onwards in the appeal re the loading of the magazine.

Another thought. She could have washed her hands having already loaded the bullets, therefore she would not have handled them after she had washed them.  It is a possibility

[Bridget]

I don't need to read it Bridget, because the German company was never contacted in 1986...there was no problems reloading that type of rifle and it was used world wide and still is....

Being brought up on a farm with guns....Bridget does not make you experienced, no,  but surely she would have witnessed the use of them...even as a young girl...

When I was about 5 maybe 6 years old, I used to go rabbiting with my dad who had a 12 bore...It was a heavy gun, but today...i could tell you how to use one and would have no problem loading one. I would have no problem with the rifle either....come on be honest, could you load a magazine and insert it into the rifle, flick the recoil and pull the trigger....you only need to see it being loaded once....

I have never seen a rifle with a magazine loaded and fired, so no, I wouldn't have a clue.

What difference does it make what the german company says? The jury tried it for themselves. If it was easy the jury knew that, if it was difficult the jury knew that - because they tried for themselves with the actual magazine.

[Bridget]

Another thought. She could have washed her hands having already loaded the bullets, therefore she would not have handled them after she had washed them.  It is a possibility

Yes of course, which is why the defence brought up the issue of ritual cleansing.

[Patti]

I have never seen a rifle with a magazine loaded and fired, so no, I wouldn't have a clue.

What difference does it make what the german company says? The jury tried it for themselves. If it was easy the jury knew that, if it was difficult the jury knew that - because they tried for themselves with the actual magazine.

But the argument about the loading of the magazine was not an issue, where does it say that it was difficult to load it? The whole process of that experiment was to tell if hands got dirty...But if she had washed her hands after she had loaded the gun, then there would be no dirt on her hands....

Of course it makes a difference to what the company says.....it is clear there was no problems surrounding the loading of the rifle....this was all made up by the family, it is what they said....The jury was not aware that it was easy, they were told it was difficult to load the 10th bullet and it was equally difficult to have reloaded the said rifle at least twice, which is all poppycock.....it wasn't difficult at all...for if it was it would have shown up in the testing that the said company had made and also there would have been feedback from their customers world wide and there wasn't......

[Bridget]

But the argument about the loading of the magazine was not an issue, where does it say that it was difficult to load it? The whole process of that experiment was to tell if hands got dirty...But if she had washed her hands after she had loaded the gun, then there would be no dirt on her hands....

Of course it makes a difference to what the company says.....it is clear there was no problems surrounding the loading of the rifle....this was all made up by the family, it is what they said....The jury was not aware that it was easy, they were told it was difficult to load the 10th bullet and it was equally difficult to have reloaded the said rifle at least twice, which is all poppycock.....it wasn't difficult at all...for if it was it would have shown up in the testing that the said company had made and also there would have been feedback from their customers world wide and there wasn't......

Paragraph 69 of the appeal:

The rifle was a German made Anschutz model 525 .22 self-loading rifle in good working order. Cartridges are loaded into a magazine, which has a capacity of 10. It is, as the jury found when they conducted the exercise themselves, progressively harder to load as the number of cartridges increases. Loading the tenth is exceptionally hard.