Author Topic: Sheila on the bed, photo's withheld, blankets / sheets destroyed, carpets burned  (Read 23691 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline susan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 16196
Patti I need your help with Bridget before she eats me alive :)

Offline Bridget

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5065

I don't think the particles stay airborne Bridget.  I do know the particles can travel a few yards, before they fall..plus they can be shook of or transferred with during movement...

I agree, so in theory you could be in a room where a gun is being fired and not get any on you at all.

The annoying thing is that normal procedures were not implemented, for the swabs should have been taken at the crime scene anyway....in order for a truer reading... :) :) :)
[/quote]

And of courrse had they have done so they would probably show the little bit extra you are looking for :)
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline Bridget

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5065
Patti I need your help with Bridget before she eats me alive :)

You're safe - I've just had me dinner.
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
I agree, so in theory you could be in a room where a gun is being fired and not get any on you at all.

The annoying thing is that normal procedures were not implemented, for the swabs should have been taken at the crime scene anyway....in order for a truer reading... :) :) :)


And of courrse had they have done so they would probably show the little bit extra you are looking for :)

Very unlikely Bridget not to Bridget, touching a gun would leave residue on you, as would having a gun fired at close range as in Sheila case.

Had they done so yes and, not cocked the whole thing up...The swabs weren't tested till 4 weeks later....goodness knows where they had been. Had they been re-bagged? Had they been kept in the correct temperature, where they thrown into cars, where they retaken?   :)

Offline Bridget

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5065
Very unlikely Bridget not to Bridget, touching a gun would leave residue on you, as would having a gun fired at close range as in Sheila case.

Had they done so yes and, not cocked the whole thing up...The swabs weren't tested till 4 weeks later....goodness knows where they had been. Had they been re-bagged? Had they been kept in the correct temperature, where they thrown into cars, where they retaken?   :)

I don't think you can really tell from the  photos how much of her hand is in contact with the gun, but anyway, they did find low amounts. Much larger amounts would have been found if she had loaded and fired it.

I think when we discussed this before we established that lead deposits don't just 'fade' away. There is absolutely nothing to suggest they were rebagged, and as you know, the prosecution case (supported by evidence) is that they were resubmitted, not retaken.
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline Patti

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13193
Patti I need your help with Bridget before she eats me alive :)

I'll pinch her salt and pepper...lol  :)

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33783
Hi Patti  it seems strange that she hardly had any residue on her I am sure the tests would prove your point but it is all down to money.  lookout and april1 are more up on this than me. Patti just kidding about poor Bridget as I am sure you know Ha Ha.  Maybe not funny in the circumstances.  Forgive.

Dear Susan, you are so kind, but I really can't take ANY credit for anything pertaining to guns and their attendent facts. All I claim to know is that it's better to hold the end with the holes in away from you if it's loaded!!!!! I do have other strengths.

Offline ngb1066

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6673
I think NGB has a rifle, but probably not an electron miscroscope ;)But I agree, it would be an interesting test because you can't just say there should have been more.

I have several, but you are correct, no electron microscope.


Offline Bridget

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5065
I have several, but you are correct, no electron microscope.

Well what use are you...  ;)
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
I don't think you can really tell from the  photos how much of her hand is in contact with the gun, but anyway, they did find low amounts. Much larger amounts would have been found if she had loaded and fired it.

I think when we discussed this before we established that lead deposits don't just 'fade' away. There is absolutely nothing to suggest they were rebagged, and as you know, the prosecution case (supported by evidence) is that they were resubmitted, not retaken.

Unfortunately, I think you overlook for the possibility that any bullets which Sheila did load up were handled by the brass case part of the round, and not by the lead bullet itself - in those circumstances there would be very little lead deposit found, or transferred onto her fingers, do you not agree?

You need to prove to everyone that when Sheila loaded up bullets into the guns magazine, she handled all the bullets by the bullet head, rather than by the brass cartridge cases - and your evidence to prove and establish this is? Similarly, you also need to prove that when the lab' assistants carried out tests to see how much lead deposit got onto the fingers of their hands after loading bullets into the magazine of the gun, that they handled those bullets in the exact same way that Sheila Caffell had done - and how do you think you would be able to prove that? Lastly, no tests were carried out by those volunteers to see how much if any lead deposit would be transferred by handling the rounds by touching only the brass cases of the bullet, and the results obtained by these means compared against the results obtained from the testing of the dodgy hand swabs (Be they lab' item No. 17, DRH/33, or Lab' item number 75, DRH/44), and the evidence to prove this to be, or was the case is?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 01:17:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Bridget

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5065
Unfortunately, I think you overlook for the possibility that any bullets which Sheila did load up were handled by the brass case part of the round, and not by the lead bullet itself - in those circumstances there would be very little lead deposit found, or transferred onto her fingers, do you not agree?

You need to prove to everyone that when Sheila loaded up bullets into the guns magazine, she handled all the bullets by the bullet head, rather than by the brass cartridge cases - and your evidence to prove and establish this is? Similarly, you also need to prove that when the lab' assistants carried out tests to see how much lead deposit got onto the fingers of their hands after loading bullets into the magazine of the gun, that they handled those bullets in the exact same way that Sheila Caffell had done - and how do you think you would be able to prove that? Lastly, no tests were carried out by those volunteers to see how much if any lead deposit would be transferred by handling the rounds by touching only the brass cases of the bullet, and the results obtained by these means compared against the results obtained from the testing of the dodgy hand swabs (Be they lab' item No. 17, DRH/33, or Lab' item number 75, DRH/44), and the evidence to prove this to be, or was the case is?

No, I think it is for you to prove that the lab assistants did not handle the cartridges in the way that any normal person would.
....just cos I eat worms...

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Well what use are you...  ;)
So you'd trust anyone who has an electron microscope?

Offline ngb1066

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6673
Well what use are you...  ;)

You could buy me one. ;D


Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
You could buy me one. ;D
Have you seen the price and size of such a thing?

Offline Bridget

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5065
You could buy me one. ;D

I'll have a look on ebay...
....just cos I eat worms...