Book Reviews - Murders/Suicide at WHF

[Jane]

Jeremy had no fall back position. He almost got away with his wicked crime during which time forensic evidence was destroyed. But once he was in the dock he had no defence,no story of any significance to tell. In this regard it was similar to the Wayne Williams case in America,criminals who think their case cannot be proved and therefore maintain innocence at all costs.

We must of course remember the the same evidence which was destroyed could also have proved his innocence.

[lookout]

Jeremy had no fall back position. He almost got away with his wicked crime during which time forensic evidence was destroyed. But once he was in the dock he had no defence,no story of any significance to tell. In this regard it was similar to the Wayne Williams case in America,criminals who think their case cannot be proved and therefore maintain innocence at all costs.

Jeremy wasn't clever enough to think that his case could be proved.Especially as he hadn't done anything in the first place.
What story was he supposed to have told if he was innocent.? What is there to say.What can you say in your defence other than you didn't kill anyone.?

[killingeve]

This is old ground which was gone over when June offered to buy Colin and Sheila an antiques shop in the country and was turned down flat by Sheila who wanted to remain in London.

Errr no it wasn't.  The phone conversation took place after Sheila was discharged from hospital on 29th March '85 some 18 weeks prior to the murders. 

[Jane]

Errr no it wasn't.  The phone conversation took place after Sheila was discharged from hospital on 29th March '85 some 18 weeks prior to the murders.

NaNu!!! THANKYOU!!! That information lends even more weight to Dr Ferguson's assessment of Sheila being barely worth the paper it was written on. I had calculated, wrongly, that he had previously spoken with Sheila approx. 12 weeks prior to the murders and that much had changed for the worst for her in that time. That it had been 18 weeks since he'd last spoken with her, IMO, only makes his statement relevant to that occasion and no more yet one of our posters frequently touts out the good Dr's assessment of her as being the latest thing in psychiatric evaluation. It is only, IMO, but his evaluation tells us ONLY about her mental state 18 weeks prior to the murders and as such, little value can be attributed to it.

[Patti]

I was reading snippets from Blood relations last night.  Wilkes describing what Julie said in court.

She advises Jeremy that the house is too beautiful to burn down and would be difficult to torch because it was too big.  Jeremy agreed she said.

She later described an argument they had because Jeremy was dithering about booking an holiday. He had told her it would be difficult to get time off from the farm. I was annoyed she said. He eventually told her he could not take time off from the farm and said he would give her some money so she could go away with Liz.

The other bit I read was that when Sheila was having one of her episodes when Freddie was there. He called 3 doctors that night and only one them gave her medication....the other two, Sheila would not allow them to examine her.  I never knew this, I thought only one doctor had visited her. Freddie was clearly concerned and according to Wilkes, Freddie's statem threw more weight to the police convincing them that it could have been a murder/suicide.   

Pages 182 onwards.

[lookout]

I was reading snippets from Blood relations last night.  Wilkes describing what Julie said in court.

She advises Jeremy that the house is too beautiful to burn down and would be difficult to torch because it was too big.  Jeremy agreed she said.

She later described an argument they had because Jeremy was dithering about booking an holiday. He had told her it would be difficult to get time off from the farm. I was annoyed she said. He eventually told her he could not take time off from the farm and said he would give her some money so she could go away with Liz.

The other bit I read was that when Sheila was having one of her episodes when Freddie was there. He called 3 doctors that night and only one them gave her medication....the other two, Sheila would not allow them to examine her.  I never knew this, I thought only one doctor had visited her. Freddie was clearly concerned and according to Wilkes, Freddie's statem threw more weight to the police convincing them that it could have been a murder/suicide.   

Pages 182 onwards.

Hi Patti,,in the first line about " the house being too beautiful to burn down ",,,I take that more as a question from Julie,,rather than a statement,,,,as in her cunning way,she was waiting for a " negative " reaction from Jeremy,,,,and instead,," he'd agreed ". Would a criminal ever agree not to do something.?
Do you get my drift.? She was one cow.!

I knew that there were 3 doctors BTW,,,and that Freddie was traumatised/scared that night.

[lookout]

I didn't even know the woman,,,but can see right through her.! Her tactics stank.

[maggie]

Hi Patti,,in the first line about " the house being too beautiful to burn down ",,,I take that more as a question from Julie,,rather than a statement,,,,as in her cunning way,she was waiting for a " negative " reaction from Jeremy,,,,and instead,," he'd agreed ". Would a criminal ever agree not to do something.?
Do you get my drift.? She was one cow.!
I knew that there were 3 doctors BTW,,,and that Freddie was traumatised/scared that night.

Freddie must have been terrified to call out 3 different doctors that night Patti/lookout I had no idea either Patti.  I would imagine he was traumatised it must have been a terrifying experience for him. He said he feared for his safety.

[Jane]

I was reading snippets from Blood relations last night.  Wilkes describing what Julie said in court.

She advises Jeremy that the house is too beautiful to burn down and would be difficult to torch because it was too big.  Jeremy agreed she said.

She later described an argument they had because Jeremy was dithering about booking an holiday. He had told her it would be difficult to get time off from the farm. I was annoyed she said. He eventually told her he could not take time off from the farm and said he would give her some money so she could go away with Liz.

The other bit I read was that when Sheila was having one of her episodes when Freddie was there. He called 3 doctors that night and only one them gave her medication....the other two, Sheila would not allow them to examine her.  I never knew this, I thought only one doctor had visited her. Freddie was clearly concerned and according to Wilkes, Freddie's statem threw more weight to the police convincing them that it could have been a murder/suicide.   

Pages 182 onwards.

Patti, Good Bank Holiday Monday Thankyou for reminding me. I think we all pull out different pieces from the book.

Do you not find it curious that this young man who supposedly hates his 'kin parents and supposedly would have no trouble killing them, can't book a holiday because it's a busy time at the farm, something he supposedly hates so much that he might use every possible excuse not to be there. Do I detect something of a budding control freak in Julie?

[lookout]

Something more than a control freak,April.I'd have said a " budding criminal " judging by her mind.
If there'd been anyone I'd have been wary of,,,it would have been her.

[Patti]

Hi Patti,,in the first line about " the house being too beautiful to burn down ",,,I take that more as a question from Julie,,rather than a statement,,,,as in her cunning way,she was waiting for a " negative " reaction from Jeremy,,,,and instead,," he'd agreed ". Would a criminal ever agree not to do something.?
Do you get my drift.? She was one cow.!

I knew that there were 3 doctors BTW,,,and that Freddie was traumatised/scared that night.

Hi Lookout  

What strikes me is that she had discussed this with him, telling him that the house was too beautiful to burn down....the fact he agreed in the end suggests her involvement or was this a blatant lie...Its not the conversation you would have with your boyfriend is it?  I think she wanted her own way and when she did not get it, she argued with him and she tells the court that when she asked him if he loved her...He said he didn't know and he asked her if she thought he was handling it all OK...To me this is a clear sign of Jeremy not knowing how to handle the situation at all and was still in a state of shock and in the middle of all this he had to cope with her demands of him booking a holiday, but he put the running of the farm first......

Remember this is only a book....

[lookout]

Hi Lookout  

What strikes me is that she had discussed this with him, telling him that the house was too beautiful to burn down....the fact he agreed in the end suggests her involvement or was this a blatant lie...Its not the conversation you would have with your boyfriend is it?  I think she wanted her own way and when she did not get it, she argued with him and she tells the court that when she asked him if he loved her...He said he didn't know and he asked her if she thought he was handling it all OK...To me this is a clear sign of Jeremy not knowing how to handle the situation at all and was still in a state of shock and in the middle of all this he had to cope with her demands of him booking a holiday, but he put the running of the farm first......

Remember this is only a book....

Patti,,,the evil woman was putting words into Jeremys' mouth. She was so manipulating and a bad lot.
No wonder Jeremy ended the relationship,,,her mind was sick.

[Patti]

Freddie must have been terrified to call out 3 different doctors that night Patti/lookout I had no idea either Patti.  I would imagine he was traumatised it must have been a terrifying experience for him. He said he feared for his safety.

Hi Maggie

According to the book. Freddie was concerned and thought Sheila might be violent against him and others. When Freddie fetched the medication her mother in law was on her way out. Sheila had kicked her out. Freddie stayed the night and states that she would sit calm then go running round the house, thumping walls, herself and shouting that Freddie was the devil....He rang NB up and wanted him to come over, but NB said it was not possible and that he would come over first thing in the morning.  He episode lasted all night long....I was amazed that 3 doctors had seen her during the night....I only though one had been to see her....I am not sure if there is any truth to that Maggie, I suspect there might be...

[lookout]

Patti,,,the evil woman was putting words into Jeremys' mouth. She was so manipulating and a bad lot.
No wonder Jeremy ended the relationship,,,her mind was sick.

I wouldn't have trusted this harridan as far as I could throw her. She lied her way through that courtroom,,,and couldn't have given a damn about Jeremy,,,,she never did.! Just his money.

[Patti]

Patti, Good Bank Holiday Monday Thankyou for reminding me. I think we all pull out different pieces from the book.

Do you not find it curious that this young man who supposedly hates his 'kin parents and supposedly would have no trouble killing them, can't book a holiday because it's a busy time at the farm, something he supposedly hates so much that he might use every possible excuse not to be there. Do I detect something of a budding control freak in Julie?

A good bank holiday to you too...lovely April.

I am in the same frame of mind, on that April. If she did not get her own way, then it was lip on the floor jobbo.  Bar of soap in the gob...pillow over the face, music box thrown at the mirror....is there any wonder he went else where.  Yes, he choose to work on the farm instead of going on holiday. Folkes said he was very interested in farming, yet we hear from those who want to believe that he wasn't.....