Letter contents written by Colin Caffell to Ralph Bamber sparks off shootings

[lookout]

As a precautionary measure,children are placed in care until such times as a member/s of the family are assessed and proved to be able to look after the children,,,which,for all we know,is what happened in Colin's case. We don't know the full history,do we.?

[Nuala]

You could use this argument to explain Sheila's alleged rampage about any subject then, if she had no rational thought?

Roch, when she was at WHF she had help with the children already. If it is a mothers help being approached then this was no different from before. And I simply do not believe that the bamber's would ever have contemplated voluntarily placing them in care, nor had they any right to.

I believe there were (three or four?) witness statements of foster carers, not child minders, recorded in the list of statements that Mike recently posted here.

[maggie]

At the time the children were having problems they were living with Sheila. When they went to live with Colin they settled down and their school work improved. Are you suggesting that that should be ignored, and they should have been placed in care anyway?

I think your'e moving the goal posts bridget.  Those boys must have been deeply affected by their experience of living with a schizophrenic mother.  The dissasociation, and withdrawn world she lived in must have been very frightening for them.  I would suggest the whole family should have been deeply concerned about what was happening.  The fact is, as well, Sheila may not have been listening to whatever the conversation was, she lived inside herself, apparently Jeremy said she wasn't taking part in the conversation, was not invoved. Schizophrenics become very withdrawen before a pschotic episode.

[lookout]

There probably are such statements,Chochok,as with all government involvements,they have to be documented.
The process is either voluntary,or via a court order,so it must have been a voluntary decision,whereby there still has to be a signature when the children are handed over.

[Bridget]

I think your'e moving the goal posts bridget.

No I'm not, I'm reading exactly what the letter says, instead of guessing what may or may not have been happening in the surrounding circumstances.

Those boys must have been deeply affected by their experience of living with a schizophrenic mother.  The dissasociation, and withdrawn world she lived in must have been very frightening for those little boys.  I would suggest the whole family should have been deeply concerned about what was happening.

Maybe they were, but have you ever seen any criticism of Colin's care of the boys?

The fact is as well that Sheila may not have been listening to whatever the conversation was, she lived inside herself, apparently Jeremy said she wasn't taking part in the conversation, ws not invoved. Schizophrenics become very withdrawen before a pschotic episode.

Then it's unlikely that any such conversation would have sparked anything off.

[maggie]

I believe there were (three or four?) witness statements of foster carers, not child minders, recorded in the list of statements that Mike recently posted here.

I believe your'e right keira.  I definitely remember seeing statements of foster carers.  After all however, the antis dress it up Sheila was a very sick young woman.

[Bridget]

There probably are such statements,Chochok,as with all government involvements,they have to be documented.
The process is either voluntary,or via a court order,so it must have been a voluntary decision,whereby there still has to be a signature when the children are handed over.

The children were never handed over.

[vidvic]

I believe there were (three or four?) witness statements of foster carers, not child minders, recorded in the list of statements that Mike recently posted here.

Be nice to see them.

[maggie]

Bridget

The conversation could have been a coincidence, whether Sheila heard it or not doesn't mean she wasn't responsoble for the ensuing tragedy.  If she was extremely withdrawn that in itself is a sign of a psychotic episode occurring very soon.  I haven't seen anything adverse about colin's fathering.  I am not accusing anyone I am just stating that any family, I'm sure, would have been very perturbed about the boys situation and no doubt, many conversations took place.  After all June and neville loved those boys therefore would want what they saw as the best for them

[Bridget]

Bridget

The conversation could have been a coincidence, whether Sheila heard it or not doesn't mean she wasn't responsoble for the ensuing tragedy.  If she was extremely withdrawn that in itself is a sign of a psychotic episode occurring very soon.  I haven't seen anything adverse about colin's fathering.  I am not accusing anyone I am just stating that any family, I'm sure, would have been very perturbed about the boys situation and no doubt, many conversations took place.  After all June and neville loved those boys therefore would want what they saw as the best for them

Now who's moving the goal posts lol

In her statement Colin's mother said that June had been concerned that the boys may be put in foster homes because of Sheila's illness, and that she was obviously against it.

[maggie]

Now who's moving the goal posts lol

In her statement Colin's mother said that June had been concerned that the boys may be put in foster homes because of Sheila's illness, and that she was obviously against it.

Sorry Bridget, will answer later, have to go out, am late. 

[Bridget]

I believe there were (three or four?) witness statements of foster carers, not child minders, recorded in the list of statements that Mike recently posted here.

Yes, day foster carers, as Vic has already said.

[vidvic]

Before this case, I didn't realise that such a thing existed. I alway took foster care to mean semi permanent home. All I'm trying to do is show that in this case 'foster' care isn't what some people might think it suggests.

[lookout]

From what I remember reading about the social sevices regarding the twins,was that " they were satisfied that they weren't in any danger " ( famous last words ) ,so therefore crossing them off the register.
Look what happened to Baby P and those like him where the parents either don't answer the calls,or they ignore any danger signals.
I would have had eyes in the back of my head with a woman like Sheila around,even though she held no responsibility for her illness,they have to be watched closely. Missing medication is a danger signal in schizophrenics. I know,,,,,,,I've worked with them.

[Roch]

You could use this argument to explain Sheila's alleged rampage about any subject then, if she had no rational thought?

Roch, when she was at WHF she had help with the children already. If it is a mothers help being approached then this was no different from before. And I simply do not believe that the bamber's would ever have contemplated voluntarily placing them in care, nor had they any right to.

Vic, I don't follow you on your first point.  What we need to do is look at exactly what was said by Jeremy Bamber on this.  What is his exact quote in his statement re the alleged conversation?