Grounds for not referring Jeremy Bamber’s case back to the appeal court.

[mike tesko]

Let's sort out that log of events. I think it was written by Malcolm Bonnet who was receiving messages via radio. It was not written at the scene in my opinion.

Both logs are indicate as coming from an 'exchange line'....... no 999 calls. So this means if two calls by two people both parties will have had to ring directly. Jeremy had to look up the number for Chelmsford Police Station. Would Neville Bamber have looked up the number for a Police Station whilst Sheila was going beserk with a gun?

Also the judge, in summing up the case, gave the defence the benefit of the doubt re Jeremy's call to the Police being at 3.26 am as opposed to 3.36 am.

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The trial judge, Mr Justice drake, gave the defense the benefit of doubt over this matter, because it was being argued by the prosecution that the timing of the call made by Jeremy to his then girlfriend Julie Mugford, had been made after Jeremy's call to the police, not beforehand...

Jeremy stated that he called Julie at about 3:30am, which was after the call he got from his dad, but before the timing of his call to the police at 3:36am...

The timing of the 3:26am, call was introduced by the prosecution to suggest that Jeremy had called the police before he called his girl friend, and that he had called the police at 3:26am, or thereabouts, which was minutes, before he called Julie at 3:30am? The prosecution also got Julie Muforgd to introduce the argument when she testified that the timing of Jeremy's call to her that morning had happened at about 3:15am, not 3:30am, by relying upon the suggestion that a clock which was at the premises where she was in digs was 15 minutes fast...

Imagine that, the clock in the control room 10 minutes fast, and the clock in London in the house where Mugford was in digs, also being 10 to 15 minutes fast?

What a coincidence.,..

So if it was known at the trial that there was a log of a call at 3.26, why on earth would the defence not want to see that? They must have asked where the information came from. I don't believe they didn't know about Malcolm Bonnet's log at the time.

Why would the prosecution be keen to say that Jeremy called Julie after he called the police? What was the point of that?

------------------------------

Your twisting the words to mean something they don't mean - the 3:26am timing came about because of the suggestion that the clock in the control room was ten minutes fast, there was no disclosure of the actual log that you keep trying to bring in through the back door...

If the original of that log had been available, it would have been disclosed, and acted upon by the defense who would have wasted no time at all, raising the point about a call from Ralph Bamber...

[Kaldin]

Let's sort out that log of events. I think it was written by Malcolm Bonnet who was receiving messages via radio. It was not written at the scene in my opinion.

Both logs are indicate as coming from an 'exchange line'....... no 999 calls. So this means if two calls by two people both parties will have had to ring directly. Jeremy had to look up the number for Chelmsford Police Station. Would Neville Bamber have looked up the number for a Police Station whilst Sheila was going beserk with a gun?

Also the judge, in summing up the case, gave the defence the benefit of the doubt re Jeremy's call to the Police being at 3.26 am as opposed to 3.36 am.

-----------------------------------------------------

The trial judge, Mr Justice drake, gave the defense the benefit of doubt over this matter, because it was being argued by the prosecution that the timing of the call made by Jeremy to his then girlfriend Julie Mugford, had been made after Jeremy's call to the police, not beforehand...

Jeremy stated that he called Julie at about 3:30am, which was after the call he got from his dad, but before the timing of his call to the police at 3:36am...

The timing of the 3:26am, call was introduced by the prosecution to suggest that Jeremy had called the police before he called his girl friend, and that he had called the police at 3:26am, or thereabouts, which was minutes, before he called Julie at 3:30am? The prosecution also got Julie Muforgd to introduce the argument when she testified that the timing of Jeremy's call to her that morning had happened at about 3:15am, not 3:30am, by relying upon the suggestion that a clock which was at the premises where she was in digs was 15 minutes fast...

Imagine that, the clock in the control room 10 minutes fast, and the clock in London in the house where Mugford was in digs, also being 10 to 15 minutes fast?

What a coincidence.,..

So if it was known at the trial that there was a log of a call at 3.26, why on earth would the defence not want to see that? They must have asked where the information came from. I don't believe they didn't know about Malcolm Bonnet's log at the time.

Why would the prosecution be keen to say that Jeremy called Julie after he called the police? What was the point of that?

------------------------------

Your twisting the words to mean something they don't mean - the 3:26am timing came about because of the suggestion that the clock in the control room was ten minutes fast, there was no disclosure of the actual log that you keep trying to bring in through the back door...

If the original of that log had been available, it would have been disclosed, and acted upon by the defense who would have wasted no time at all, raising the point about a call from Ralph Bamber...

Why would anyone want to claim the clock was ten minutes fast? That makes no sense whatsoever.

How come the appeal judges knew about the log and the defence didn't - in 2002?

[Kaldin]

I just don't get this stuff about whether Jeremy phoned Julie or the police first. What did it matter? Julie didn't seem to know what time he called anyway. I just can't see the relevance of any of this. The defence would have wanted to know why the prosecution were so interested in the timing and in who was called first.

No, I think they knew about the log, and I think the defence knew about it too.

[Hartley]

Nevill did not phone the police, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that he did, how would he have obtained the tel number. The logs clearly state who made the calls.

Heck you only have a convicted murderers word that Nevill made any call at all!

[Kaldin]

Nevill did not phone the police, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that he did, how would he have obtained the tel number. The logs clearly state who made the calls.

Heck you only have a convicted murderers word that Nevill made any call at all!

I agree, and I'm a bit fed up of going round in circles over it. Mike believes Neville called the police, and no amount of logic will convince him otherwise.

[mb1]

I can't keep up with all the names, but you'll get the drift.

3.26 JB Phones police station. Officer A answers, notes time on pad, takes details - JB, son, informing father phoned him saying daughter has gone berserk with gun. Officer A puts JB on hold.
        Am I mistaken - does officer a despatch car?
Officer A phones Officer B in control room, saying father reports daughter gone berserk with gun.
Officer B records details and time xx
Officer A takes JB off hold - JB complains he's been on hold 11 minutes (Anne Easton mentions JB complaining about the delay).

Could Officer B have written the time it was when he ended the call with Officer A and took action, despatching a car. Is that why it was 3.36am.
Officer A recorded time at start of their call.
Officer B recorded time at end of their call.

?

[mike tesko]

Nevill did not phone the police, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that he did, how would he have obtained the tel number. The logs clearly state who made the calls.

Heck you only have a convicted murderers word that Nevill made any call at all!

I agree, and I'm a bit fed up of going round in circles over it. Mike believes Neville called the police, and no amount of logic will convince him otherwise.

---------------------------------------------

maybe Ralph did call the police, no amount of logic will convince you otherwise...

[Pete0001]

I can't keep up with all the names, but you'll get the drift.

3.26 JB Phones police station. Officer A answers, notes time on pad, takes details - JB, son, informing father phoned him saying daughter has gone berserk with gun. Officer A puts JB on hold.
        Am I mistaken - does officer a despatch car?
Officer A phones Officer B in control room, saying father reports daughter gone berserk with gun.
Officer B records details and time xx
Officer A takes JB off hold - JB complains he's been on hold 11 minutes (Anne Easton mentions JB complaining about the delay).

Could Officer B have written the time it was when he ended the call with Officer A and took action, despatching a car. Is that why it was 3.36am.
Officer A recorded time at start of their call.
Officer B recorded time at end of their call.

?

+1
That's exactly how I see the calls. I tried explaining it that way earlier but I just couldn't put it right.
Nicely done.

[Pete0001]

Nevill did not phone the police, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that he did, how would he have obtained the tel number. The logs clearly state who made the calls.

Heck you only have a convicted murderers word that Nevill made any call at all!

I agree, and I'm a bit fed up of going round in circles over it. Mike believes Neville called the police, and no amount of logic will convince him otherwise.

---------------------------------------------

maybe Ralph did call the police, no amount of logic will convince you otherwise...

Maybe.. but that's only on JB's statement and turning what looks like simple clerical confusion into a mass cover up story.
You are quite right.. he may have called the Police... but there is no worthy proof of that.
As far as I can see... mb1 has summed up my thoughts exactly.

[Kaldin]

I can't keep up with all the names, but you'll get the drift.

3.26 JB Phones police station. Officer A answers, notes time on pad, takes details - JB, son, informing father phoned him saying daughter has gone berserk with gun. Officer A puts JB on hold.
        Am I mistaken - does officer a despatch car?
Officer A phones Officer B in control room, saying father reports daughter gone berserk with gun.
Officer B records details and time xx
Officer A takes JB off hold - JB complains he's been on hold 11 minutes (Anne Easton mentions JB complaining about the delay).

Could Officer B have written the time it was when he ended the call with Officer A and took action, despatching a car. Is that why it was 3.36am.
Officer A recorded time at start of their call.
Officer B recorded time at end of their call.

?

Other way round I think. Officer A could have recorded the time he ended the call with Jeremy, and Officer B recorded the time that Officer A called him. 

Just to put some names to it:

Officer A who took the call from Jeremy is PC West, AKA 1990. He recorded the time as 3.36.

Officer B is Malcolm Bonnet in the information room, who was actually a civilian rather than a police officer. He recorded the call from PC West as being at 3.26.

[Hartley]

Nevill did not phone the police, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that he did, how would he have obtained the tel number. The logs clearly state who made the calls.

Heck you only have a convicted murderers word that Nevill made any call at all!

I'm curious as to why you ask how Ralph could have obtained the phone number, Hartley?

All hells breaking loose, Sheilas got a gun and is going berserk, I may have already been shot four times, shall I go to the phone and dial 999? Nah I think I'll take a look in the yellow pages and phone Chelmsford nick instead.

Really? Nevill didn't call the police, and in my opinion he didn't call JB, he had already been killed.

[mike tesko]

I can't keep up with all the names, but you'll get the drift.

3.26 JB Phones police station. Officer A answers, notes time on pad, takes details - JB, son, informing father phoned him saying daughter has gone berserk with gun. Officer A puts JB on hold.
        Am I mistaken - does officer a despatch car?
Officer A phones Officer B in control room, saying father reports daughter gone berserk with gun.
Officer B records details and time xx
Officer A takes JB off hold - JB complains he's been on hold 11 minutes (Anne Easton mentions JB complaining about the delay).

Could Officer B have written the time it was when he ended the call with Officer A and took action, despatching a car. Is that why it was 3.36am.
Officer A recorded time at start of their call.
Officer B recorded time at end of their call.

?

Other way round I think. Officer A could have recorded the time he ended the call with Jeremy, and Officer B recorded the time that Officer A called him. 

Just to put some names to it:

Officer A who took the call from Jeremy is PC West, AKA 1990. He recorded the time as 3.36.

Officer B is Malcolm Bonnet in the information room, who was actually a civilian rather than a police officer. He recorded the call from PC West as being at 3.26.

-----------------------------------------

But Sheila was not Jeremy's daughter, and the guns at the house belonged to Ralph...

[Kaldin]

I can't keep up with all the names, but you'll get the drift.

3.26 JB Phones police station. Officer A answers, notes time on pad, takes details - JB, son, informing father phoned him saying daughter has gone berserk with gun. Officer A puts JB on hold.
        Am I mistaken - does officer a despatch car?
Officer A phones Officer B in control room, saying father reports daughter gone berserk with gun.
Officer B records details and time xx
Officer A takes JB off hold - JB complains he's been on hold 11 minutes (Anne Easton mentions JB complaining about the delay).

Could Officer B have written the time it was when he ended the call with Officer A and took action, despatching a car. Is that why it was 3.36am.
Officer A recorded time at start of their call.
Officer B recorded time at end of their call.

?

Other way round I think. Officer A could have recorded the time he ended the call with Jeremy, and Officer B recorded the time that Officer A called him. 

Just to put some names to it:

Officer A who took the call from Jeremy is PC West, AKA 1990. He recorded the time as 3.36.

Officer B is Malcolm Bonnet in the information room, who was actually a civilian rather than a police officer. He recorded the call from PC West as being at 3.26.

-----------------------------------------

But Sheila was not Jeremy's daughter, and the guns at the house belonged to Ralph...

It doesn't matter. You have to remember that Jeremy quoted to PC West what his father said, then PC West had to try and jot it down and then repeat it to Malcolm Bonnet. I can see how all that happened.

[mike tesko]

Nevill did not phone the police, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that he did, how would he have obtained the tel number. The logs clearly state who made the calls.

Heck you only have a convicted murderers word that Nevill made any call at all!

I'm curious as to why you ask how Ralph could have obtained the phone number, Hartley?

All jells breaking loose, Sheilas got a gun and is going berserk, I may have already been shot four times, shall I go to the phone and dial 999? Nah I think I'll take a look in the yellow pages and phone Chelmsford nick instead.

Really? Nevill didn't call the police, and in my opinion he didn't call JB, he had already been killed.

-------------------------------

You have no idea at what time Ralph was shot, and whether or not he did not already know the telephone number of the local police station, in his role as a Magistrate? Why would Ralph have to look the telephone number up, for his local police station, if he already knew it? Where is your proof that Ralph did not know the telephone number of his local police station, and or that he was already wounded or not when he contacted the police at 3:26am?

[mike tesko]

I can't keep up with all the names, but you'll get the drift.

3.26 JB Phones police station. Officer A answers, notes time on pad, takes details - JB, son, informing father phoned him saying daughter has gone berserk with gun. Officer A puts JB on hold.
        Am I mistaken - does officer a despatch car?
Officer A phones Officer B in control room, saying father reports daughter gone berserk with gun.
Officer B records details and time xx
Officer A takes JB off hold - JB complains he's been on hold 11 minutes (Anne Easton mentions JB complaining about the delay).

Could Officer B have written the time it was when he ended the call with Officer A and took action, despatching a car. Is that why it was 3.36am.
Officer A recorded time at start of their call.
Officer B recorded time at end of their call.

?

Other way round I think. Officer A could have recorded the time he ended the call with Jeremy, and Officer B recorded the time that Officer A called him. 

Just to put some names to it:

Officer A who took the call from Jeremy is PC West, AKA 1990. He recorded the time as 3.36.

Officer B is Malcolm Bonnet in the information room, who was actually a civilian rather than a police officer. He recorded the call from PC West as being at 3.26.

-----------------------------------------

But Sheila was not Jeremy's daughter, and the guns at the house belonged to Ralph...

It doesn't matter. You have to remember that Jeremy quoted to PC West what his father said, then PC West had to try and jot it down and then repeat it to Malcolm Bonnet. I can see how all that happened.

-------------------------------------------

So, how did Malcolm Bonnet end up with the log from the scene, written in PC Wests handwriting, with the details of Ralph's call on the reverse side?