Post Mortem

[bloggs and son]

I accept we are going round in circles Bridget.  The NDI result from the 2007 LD test is not in contradiction to the 2011 Psychological tests.  It is complimentary.  The argument used to trash the 2007 test is that Bamber has either convinced him self he is not guilty or that the tester is unaware of manipulation on the part of Bamber.  Manipulation and self deception are not born out in the 2011 Psychological tests.   Furthermore, the Dr. pours scorn on the suggestion that a manipulative Bamber is able to keep up such facades. 

It's guilty camp nonsense.  Smoke and mirrors, as you might put it.

Another wild argument by the guilty party. You can't get by their unreasoning behaviour can you?

[susan]

ChochokEira  Yes I agree Sheila,s clothes could have been in the buckets which Ann took home thinking it was menstrual blood would not think it would smell any different especially if in water as it would be really diluted.  I wonder if anyone ever asked Jeremy what Sheila was wearing when he left that fateful night.It would be interesting to know.

[Bridget]

ChochokEira  Yes I agree Sheila,s clothes could have been in the buckets which Ann took home thinking it was menstrual blood would not think it would smell any different especially if in water as it would be really diluted.  I wonder if anyone ever asked Jeremy what Sheila was wearing when he left that fateful night.It would be interesting to know.

I was just wondering the same.

[bloggs and son]

He passed, even though he did it.

You can't use Egan's report to support your argument because he was not assessing whether or not JB was being deceptive when taking the test in 2007. If you can get Egan to say that he believes in LD tests and that that was what he was referring to in his 2011 report I'll start listening.

"o judgment thou art fled to brutish beasts And men have lost their reason".  (William Shakespeare)

[JackiePreece]

For that to work you have to assume there was a top and socks, assume there was blood on them, and then assume the blood was that of the victims. That's a lot of assumptions.

Yes assumptions and not a shred of evidence to show he is guilty and no violent past and NO prison or youth offender convictions

I bet there's not many potential MOJ cases where the person convicted has no previous convictions for violence

[Nuala]

For that to work you have to assume there was a top and socks, assume there was blood on them, and then assume the blood was that of the victims. That's a lot of assumptions.

I do not believe I've assuming anything regarding the panties and joggers in the bucket/s, as AE stated in her statement that the contents of this bucket/these buckets smelled of blood.

[Roch]

Bridget, do you agree...

That if Egan had scored Bamber more highly for psychopathy, self deception or manipulation and therefore issued a report conclusion different to the one he did, you would have used such an assessment to argue that this is probably the reason why he managed to pass his LD?

I have more than a sneaking suspicion that you would...

[Bridget]

I do not believe I've assuming anything regarding the panties and joggers in the bucket/s, as AE stated in her statement that the contents of this bucket/these buckets smelled of blood.

I didn't say you were making assumptions regarding the knickers and joggers though did I? And getting caught out with your period is a perfectly reasonable explanation for those.

[bloggs and son]

Patti

If I take what I have assumed to be your instinctive post above I do get confused if I apply your response and consider Sheila to be the killer.

If one takes your instinctive response and apply it to Nevill. Given Jeremy alleges Nevill identified to him that Sheila was going berserk with the gun. We know Nevill got shot at close range and so must have been faced with his killer which, if Jeremy is telling the truth, would be Sheila in this scenario.

There are a number of clear images of Sheila's body which include bare arms, legs, feet, neck and face etc. Such images are posted on the forum. These images will have been taken within a short time frame of Nevill being killed.


Question

Why does Sheila not have any suggestive wounds of a violent struggle / fight, barring the obvious 'self inflicted' gun shot wounds?

Nevill was 6' 4" and a physically fit farmer.

Now apply the same reasoning to Jeremy. No marks. No forensic evidence. Nothing to connect him to the crime except his ex girlfriend who tried to strangle him and who made a deal with a national rag.

[susan]

Chochok Eira  I thought I had read that a pair of joggers were hanging over the banister at the top of the stairs maybe they were clean.  I do agree with you about the clothes in the bucket joggers can be sometimes just like thick tights and not bulky at all.

[Nuala]

I do not believe I've assuming anything regarding the panties and joggers in the bucket/s, as AE stated in her statement that the contents of this bucket/these buckets smelled of blood.

AE qualified this statement by referring to this blood as menstrual blood, but I believe that AE was mistaken about this.

In my experience, the amount of blood staining that you might get with menstrual blood is minimal and the same is true of the smell of this menstrual blood once items stained with it are soaked in a bucket/buckets of water.

Menstrual blood does have a distinctive, hormonal scent to it (sorry about this, chaps), the hormonal content, however, and the menstrual blood are washed out and highly diluted once items stained with this are soaked in water.

The effect of this dilution is to remove any smell that the bloodstained areas might previously have had.

[bloggs and son]

Patti

If I take what I have assumed to be your instinctive post above I do get confused if I apply your response and consider Sheila to be the killer.

If one takes your instinctive response and apply it to Nevill. Given Jeremy alleges Nevill identified to him that Sheila was going berserk with the gun. We know Nevill got shot at close range and so must have been faced with his killer which, if Jeremy is telling the truth, would be Sheila in this scenario.

There are a number of clear images of Sheila's body which include bare arms, legs, feet, neck and face etc. Such images are posted on the forum. These images will have been taken within a short time frame of Nevill being killed.


Question

Why does Sheila not have any suggestive wounds of a violent struggle / fight, barring the obvious 'self inflicted' gun shot wounds?

Nevill was 6' 4" and a physically fit farmer.

Well perhaps it happened like Bridget suggested?

Ralph had alread been shot when he was beaten so I doubt that he fought with him....

So the guilty camp have two arguments so if one doesn't work then they can fall back onto the other one. Two more wild theories from them.

[Nuala]

Chochok Eira  I thought I had read that a pair of joggers were hanging over the banister at the top of the stairs maybe they were clean.  I do agree with you about the clothes in the bucket joggers can be sometimes just like thick tights and not bulky at all.

I stand to be corrected on this, Susan, but I believe the clothing hanging over the bannister looked more like tights than joggers.

[JackiePreece]

I didn't say you were making assumptions regarding the knickers and joggers though did I? And getting caught out with your period is a perfectly reasonable explanation for those.

Why on earth would you come to the conclusion that the clothes in the bucket had menstrual blood on them?
Oh Anne Eaton said so

Egap did her own test a couple of weeks ago and came to the conclusion you wouldn't be able to tell where the blood came from there is a good chance it came from Neville

Bridget is wasn't tested was it
Anne had taken it home like the silencer got taken home

[Bridget]

Bridget, do you agree...

That if Egan had scored Bamber more highly for psychopathy, self deception or manipulation and therefore issued a report conclusion different to the one he did, you would have used such an assessment to argue that this is probably the reason why he managed to pass his LD?

I have more than a sneaking suspicion that you would...

Roch, honestly, I do believe LD tests are pretty much hokum. I don't believe anything Egan said was intended to be supportive of the LD test. If JB had scored more highly on Egan's test I would not be linking it with the LD test. I'll give you this though, I think that JBs willingness to do the test at all says more about his belief in his innocence than the test itself does. I still think he was an idiot to take it though.