Bamber guilty, surely!

[bookcase40]

Being in a simular situation regarding a person with serious mental illness in the family l always in the begining of the illness used to call the non emmergency number and l would look it up in the phone book everytime my son went off his head. Nowadays we call 999 straight away however my dad calls me and l call 999, no one can second guess what goes on in families they are a law unto themselves. I find 999 does NOT get anyone here quicker than going down the other route even though you are reporting someone threatening to kill someone with a knife.

[mike tesko]

Forgive me Mike but I don't quite follow.  Are you saying that the panic button was activated or not? If not, are you suggesting that the reason Ralph chose to telephone the police, instead of using the button was because he didn't appreciate the true danger he was in?

Those are your words not mine - but I will try to answer the point you are trying to make, Did Ralph, or June, activate the panic alarm which was fitted at the scene, (because of threats made against Ralph and his families life), once the attacks started - Yes, I believe one of them did activate the alarm, but that it may have or could have triggered a set of events which forced Ralph to subsequently contact the police by use of the land line, to explain why the panic alarm had been mistakenly activated previously. On this latter occasion, Ralph simply contacted the police (3:26am) to tell them why the panic alarm had been activated by mistake, namely that his daughter had got possession of one of his guns, and that she was going berserk...

[Patti]

Patti, re post 56. I have never seen the second part of that note before. The top part of has " please with a three under it, it is possible to identify other letters in the rest but some of the symbols could be Arabic and as I don't come from an oil well dynasty I haven't a clue as to what they mean. For checking in out magnify at 200, lay the laptop screen flat and look at it with the keyboard at the top. I am rubbish at explaining things but if you give it a try you'll know what I mean (Eventually)

Whoosh Campion....I know nothing about symbols......or Arabic, come to that.

I'm not sure about that note....it could be the children were using her notebook to write in.....

Our Susan thinks it is connected to religion and the number 3 is symbolic....

I am slightly swayed towards Susan's idea.....

)))

[mike tesko]

Those are your words not mine - but I will try to answer the point you are trying to make, Did Ralph, or June, activate the panic alarm which was fitted at the scene, (because of threats made against Ralph and his families life), once the attacks started - Yes, I believe one of them did activate the alarm, but that it may have or could have triggered a set of events which forced Ralph to subsequently contact the police by use of the land line, to explain why the panic alarm had been mistakenly activated previously. On this latter occasion, Ralph simply contacted the police (3:26am) to tell them why the panic alarm had been activated by mistake, namely that his daughter had got possession of one of his guns, and that she was going berserk...

Whilst Ralph was busy phoning the police (3:26am), explaining the reasons for the panic alarm having been activated, Jeremy was trying to re-establish contact with his father, by redialling the whf telephone number, but his attempts were met by, a constant engaged tone...

[mike tesko]

Whilst Ralph was busy phoning the police (3:26am), explaining the reasons for the panic alarm having been activated, Jeremy was trying to re-establish contact with his father, by redialling the whf telephone number, but his attempts were met by, a constant engaged tone...

Jeremy then calls the police (3:36am), and recounts what he was told by his father...

[mike tesko]

Jeremy then calls the police (3:36am), and recounts what he was told by his father...

This helps to explain why there exists two separate and different phone message logs, one timed at 3:26am, and the other at 3:36am...

[mike tesko]

This helps to explain why there exists two separate and different phone message logs, one timed at 3:26am, and the other at 3:36am...

The facts speak for themselves, details of Ralph's call to the police (3:26am) provides i9nfornmatiion from two different sources, whereas details of Jeremy's call refer to one version of events?

[ajross]

The facts speak for themselves, details of Ralph's call to the police (3:26am) provides i9nfornmatiion from two different sources, whereas details of Jeremy's call refer to one version of events?

Can you shed any light on Nevill's positioning? From the photos I have seen on here he was found on the floor with his head in the coal scuttle and in a 'sitting' position with rigor mortis having set in. I understand that the theory is that his body was on a chair, blocking the door that the police had to break down and that from the window, at that angle/position his body would not have been visible. What I struggle with is why, a man who has just phoned for emergency assistance, then had what seems an alimighty struggle before being shot repeatedly (and possibly tortured with a burning poker or gun barrel) is doing sat in a chair? I'm not arguing guilt or innocence, I just wonder what others think about this? I guess being exhausted and shot he may have slumped in the chair and just stayed there but with the violence involved I find this hard to believe. I guess it may not be significant but it leads me to question the 'official' course of events

[tyler]

Concerning the door to the kitchen.......surely it is an internal door?In the crime scene photos,the door is still intact?
I was under the impression that in order to get to the kitchen,you would enter through the external back door and then turn right through an internal door into the kitchen.
Mike,are you saying that you believe Nevills body was originally on a chair behind the external kitchen door?

[ajross]

Sorry, I didn't mean physically 'break' the door, that's the wrong word. In the photo archive there are photos of an untidy and disorganised kitchen with furniture all over the place and the door leading up the stairs being open. There is another photo which has an outline of Nevill's body in front of the AGA and then there is a third photo which show a tidy kitchen from the opposite angle. The door on the far side of the AGA is closed and you can see the window. I have read here that from the window you could not possibly have seen Nevill's body by the door which is was supposedly blocking (I believe Mike agrees with this) and the police then forced entry and knocked the body off of a chair and onto the floor in front of the AGA and then quickly picked up the head and put it in the scuttle to catch the blood seeping out and used various things to hand to mop up the blood. What I don't understand is why he would have been sat in that chair in front of the door ,blocking it, if there had been such a violent struggle. We will never know and if I have any facts wrong then I am happy to be told so.

[tyler]

Maybe Nevill was already slumped on the chair with exhaustion when he took the last of the shots to the head?
Sorry,I got confused.I thought Mike was saying that the door to the kitchen was the door that EP broke down.The internal one? I do believe that the internal door could,however have had to have been forced as Nevills body could very possibly have been behind it.
I certainly do not believe that any killer put Nevill in that position.His body was clearly unsettled by EP because blood had stated to run again,hence the need to surround the coal scuttle with cushions.

[maggie]

Being in a simular situation regarding a person with serious mental illness in the family l always in the begining of the illness used to call the non emmergency number and l would look it up in the phone book everytime my son went off his head. Nowadays we call 999 straight away however my dad calls me and l call 999, no one can second guess what goes on in families they are a law unto themselves. I find 999 does NOT get anyone here quicker than going down the other route even though you are reporting someone threatening to kill someone with a knife.

Totally agree bookcase40. People can be too quick to judge other peoples behaviour.  There are many reasons why people in particular situations behave in  a certain way.

[Patti]

Oh for goodness sakes....Let me tell you all....I will only say this once....hahahahahah

Nevill's body had been dead for some hours it was frozen by rigour mortise...the chair beneath him had slipped? when the raid team entered the door. Yes he could be seen from the window....at first thought, they raid team thought it was a woman...When they entered the kitchen it was poor Nevill.....

This guy's is an awful question and, if one wishes me to remove the post I will do so.....

Why in gods name was Nevill's PJ'S around his knees/chins......What a awful ugly death that man had....

In my mind he was tortured.....to the point of humiliation...

[tyler]

Oh for goodness sakes....Let me tell you all....I will only say this once....hahahahahah

Nevill's body had been dead for some hours it was frozen by rigour mortise...the chair beneath him had slipped? when the raid team entered the door. Yes he could be seen from the window....at first thought, they raid team thought it was a woman...When they entered the kitchen it was poor Nevill.....

This guy's is an awful question and, if one wishes me to remove the post I will do so.....

Why in gods name was Nevill's PJ'S around his knees/chins......What a awful ugly death that man had....

In my mind he was tortured.....to the point of humiliation...

Of coarse poor Nevill had been dead for hours.The raid team did not enter the house until gone 7 in the morning.Have you any ideas as to why,the raid team waited all those hours to enter when the house was apparently silent?
And do you have any explanation as to why Sheila had blood still running from one of her wounds,if she too had been dead for hours?No sign of rigor mortis either.

[G]

Of coarse poor Nevill had been dead for hours.The raid team did not enter the house until gone 7 in the morning.Have you any ideas as to why,the raid team waited all those hours to enter when the house was apparently silent?
And do you have any explanation as to why Sheila had blood still running from one of her wounds,if she too had been dead for hours?No sign of rigor mortis either.

Sheila on the other hand was only recently dead and was not in a state of rigor mortice. Says a lot to me. Why was there no signs that she had fought with anyone? Instead we are supposed to believe that her killer made her lie down meakly and let him shoot her calmly in the throat. In fact she was the ony one who did not show any signs of violent struggle excepting the twins who were shot whilst they slept.