Theoretical conclusions over burn marks to Nevill

[ngb1066]

So what happened with Suthersts evidence?

I know why it was dismissed, but following what you've said above, a disagreement between two credible experts should have sided with the defence, yet it didn't, the CCRC appointed expert won by a nose.

In relation to Sutherst's evidence the position is not the same as in the situation discussed above.  I am not willing to explain the reasons for that at this stage.  What I can say is that the scratches to the Aga surround remain a live issue for the defence.  Further work in relation to this is necessary.

[mike tesko]

Essex police / relatives still had possession of the second silencer at the time the marks materialized on the aga surround, supported by photographic evidence, and other documentation. Its got to be more than just a coincidence that marks turn up on the aga surround whilst police /relatives still have a silencer, and then that silencer gets sent to the lab to be checked for blood and fibres, only for paint from the aga to be found upon it...

[lebaleb]

Look at the burn marks then look at a poker then look at the end of an Anshultz rifle. Which looks more likely? Were the burn marks measured?

[ngb1066]

Look at the burn marks then look at a poker then look at the end of an Anshultz rifle. Which looks more likely? Were the burn marks measured?

The photographs of the burn marks in high definition were studied very carefully by the burns expert Dr Caruso.  In the light of this examination and tests he carried out using an identical Anschutz rifle he concluded that the burns were likely to have been caused by the end of the rifle.

[mike tesko]

The photographs of the burn marks in high definition were studied very carefully by the burns expert Dr Caruso.  In the light of this examination and tests he carried out using an identical Anschutz rifle he concluded that the burns were likely to have been caused by the end of the rifle.

End of a rifles barrel made the burn marks, there is very little if any doubt about it...

[Nuala]

Don't get too carried away Campion, he had been a forensic scientist since the mid sixties, specialising in firearms and gunshot wounds.

It would be a very tall order to dismiss his position as an expert, the same would go for Dr. Vanezis.

Firearms crime

A Home Office study published in 2007 reported that gun crime in England and Wales remained a relatively rare event. Firearms (including air guns) were used in 21,521 recorded crimes.

It said that injury caused during a firearm offence was rare, with fewer than 3% of offences resulting in a serious or fatal injury.

The number of homicides per year committed with firearms remained between 49 and 97 in the eight years to 2006.

There were two fatal shootings of police officers in England and Wales in this period, and 107 non-fatal shootings - an average of 9.7 per year over the same period.

In 2005/6 the police in England and Wales reported 50 gun homicides, a rate of 0.1 illegal gun deaths per 100,000 of population. 6.6% of homicides involved the use of a firearm.

For international comparison, in 2004 the police in the United States reported 9,326 gun homicides.

Wikipedia

I would much prefer to use the Home Office figures, but I'm working this evening, so have little time to search for these.

[Nuala]

UK's firearm homicides would have been lower still in the 1980s.

Fletcher would have seen only a small proportion of UK's very small number of firearm homicides.

I would guess that Fletcher saw the wounds from just a couple of firearm homicides each year.

The US experts would see a substantially higher number of firearm homicides.

So the experience and expertise of the US experts would be substantially greater.

[Nuala]

Firearm homicides

UK has on average 49 to 97
7 each year.

US has 9,326 each year

[Nuala]

UK's firearm homicides would have been lower still in the 1980s.

Fletcher would have seen only a small proportion of UK's very small number of firearm homicides.

I would guess that Fletcher saw the wounds from just a couple of firearm homicides each year.

The US experts would see a substantially higher number of firearm homicides.

So the experience and expertise of the US experts would be substantially greater.

Do you agree, Hartley?

[Nuala]

Put it this way, Hartley, if you needed major surgery and you could choose your surgeon, all other things being equal, would you choose a surgeon who has done thousands of such ops or one who does a couple of such ops a year?

[Roch]

UK's firearm homicides would have been lower still in the 1980s.

Fletcher would have seen only a small proportion of UK's very small number of firearm homicides.

I would guess that Fletcher saw the wounds from just a couple of firearm homicides each year.

The US experts would see a substantially higher number of firearm homicides.

So the experience and expertise of the US experts would be substantially greater.

You have to admire Hartley for his loyalty.  If a scientist linked to the police in 1985 had said the Earth was flat, he would be pointing out to us now that it was accepted in a court of law and so therefore must stand as correct.  If the defence used state of the art satellite photography, producing detailed reports that showed the Earth was round, Hartley would redirect us to the original scientist's findings.

[Nuala]

You have to admire Hartley for his loyalty.  If a scientist linked to the police in 1985 had said the Earth was flat, he would be pointing out to us now that it was accepted in a court of law and so therefore must stand as correct.  If the defence used state of the art satellite photography, producing detailed reports that showed the Earth was round, Hartley would redirect us to the original scientist's findings.

Excellent point, Rocky 

[Nuala]

You have to admire Hartley for his loyalty.  If a scientist linked to the police in 1985 had said the Earth was flat, he would be pointing out to us now that it was accepted in a court of law and so therefore must stand as correct.  If the defence used state of the art satellite photography, producing detailed reports that showed the Earth was round, Hartley would redirect us to the original scientist's findings.

So, Hartley's a flat earther as well as a monkey hanger.

[mertol22]

So, Hartley's a flat earther as well as a monkey hanger.

Hartley would doubt the current location of Essex England ,  for him it could be in Cydonia region planet Mars where the face is most likely the face of Hartley.

[Nuala]

Hartley would doubt the current location of Essex England ,  for him it could be in Cydonia region planet Mars where the face is most likely the face of Hartley.