Diary Entries of a Conspirator...

[Kaldin]

I would like to ask how it is known that the silencer DRB/1 was found by David Boutflour on 11th September 1985. I have found some kind of document relating to that. This is what it says.

15/20 Message form dated 11/9/85 from David BOUTFLOUR states he found silencer with blood on it. Silencer was in cardboard box in the downstairs office complete with telescopic sight which was double packed in polythene. Relevant point being it was not.

I have got that from this document.

http://jeremybamber.com/jeremybamber5.htm

What is that document and why does it say "Relevant point being it was not"?

[mike tesko]

I would like to ask how it is known that the silencer DRB/1 was found by David Boutflour on 11th September 1985. I have found some kind of document relating to that. This is what it says.

15/20 Message form dated 11/9/85 from David BOUTFLOUR states he found silencer with blood on it. Silencer was in cardboard box in the downstairs office complete with telescopic sight which was double packed in polythene. Relevant point being it was not.

I have got that from this document.

http://jeremybamber.com/jeremybamber5.htm

What is that document and why does it say "Relevant point being it was not"?

------------------------------------

It was not collected by DS Jones, on 12th August 1985, but rather that it (Bamber silencer)was handed over to DC Oakey by Ann Eaton on 11th September 1985, a month later...

[Kaldin]

I would like to ask how it is known that the silencer DRB/1 was found by David Boutflour on 11th September 1985. I have found some kind of document relating to that. This is what it says.

15/20 Message form dated 11/9/85 from David BOUTFLOUR states he found silencer with blood on it. Silencer was in cardboard box in the downstairs office complete with telescopic sight which was double packed in polythene. Relevant point being it was not.

I have got that from this document.

http://jeremybamber.com/jeremybamber5.htm

What is that document and why does it say "Relevant point being it was not"?

------------------------------------

It was not collected by DS Jones, on 12th August 1985, but rather that it (Bamber silencer)was handed over to DC Oakey by Ann Eaton on 11th September 1985, a month later...

That doesn't mention anyone collecting it though, so those words "relevant point being it was not" don't make sense the way you've explained it.

The statement by Oakey about what he collected from Ann Eaton on 11th September doesn't mention a silencer.

http://www.freejeremybamber.com/files/B27.pdf

[mike tesko]

I would like to ask how it is known that the silencer DRB/1 was found by David Boutflour on 11th September 1985. I have found some kind of document relating to that. This is what it says.

15/20 Message form dated 11/9/85 from David BOUTFLOUR states he found silencer with blood on it. Silencer was in cardboard box in the downstairs office complete with telescopic sight which was double packed in polythene. Relevant point being it was not.

I have got that from this document.

http://jeremybamber.com/jeremybamber5.htm

What is that document and why does it say "Relevant point being it was not"?

------------------------------------

It was not collected by DS Jones, on 12th August 1985, but rather that it (Bamber silencer)was handed over to DC Oakey by Ann Eaton on 11th September 1985, a month later...

That doesn't mention anyone collecting it though, so those words "relevant point being it was not" don't make sense the way you've explained it.

The statement by Oakey about what he collected from Ann Eaton on 11th September doesn't mention a silencer.

http://www.freejeremybamber.com/files/B27.pdf

--------------------------------------------------------

Another police record makes mention of Ann Eaton handing over the silencer to DC Oakey on 11th September 1985, and a completely separate police record confirms that this silencer, was not sent to the lab' to be examined, until 26th September, 1985, for the purpose of being checked for blood, and fibers from one of Sheila's tampons...

A further police document, confirms that David Boutflour contacted Essex police about the find of a silencer in the gun cupboard, on 11th September 1985...

How could Boutflour find a silencer in the gun cupboard on 11th September 1985, if he had already searched the gun cupboard on 10th August 19895m and already handed that into DS Jones , via Peter Eaton on 12th August 1985? How many silencers did Boutflour find in the gun cupboard, one or two different ones?

How could Peter Eaton (12th August 1985) and Ann Eaton (11th September 1985) hand over the same Bamber silencer, to the police? How could the same silencer, be handed over to DS Jones, and to DC oakey, on different dates, if Essex police retained possession of the same silencer from 12th August 1985, onwards?

[Kaldin]

I would like to ask how it is known that the silencer DRB/1 was found by David Boutflour on 11th September 1985. I have found some kind of document relating to that. This is what it says.

15/20 Message form dated 11/9/85 from David BOUTFLOUR states he found silencer with blood on it. Silencer was in cardboard box in the downstairs office complete with telescopic sight which was double packed in polythene. Relevant point being it was not.

I have got that from this document.

http://jeremybamber.com/jeremybamber5.htm

What is that document and why does it say "Relevant point being it was not"?

------------------------------------

It was not collected by DS Jones, on 12th August 1985, but rather that it (Bamber silencer)was handed over to DC Oakey by Ann Eaton on 11th September 1985, a month later...

That doesn't mention anyone collecting it though, so those words "relevant point being it was not" don't make sense the way you've explained it.

The statement by Oakey about what he collected from Ann Eaton on 11th September doesn't mention a silencer.

http://www.freejeremybamber.com/files/B27.pdf

--------------------------------------------------------

Another police record makes mention of Ann Eaton handing over the silencer to DC Oakey on 11th September 1985, and a completely separate police record confirms that this silencer, was not sent to the lab' to be examined, until 26th September, 1985, for the purpose of being checked for blood, and fibers from one of Sheila's tampons...

A further police document, confirms that David Boutflour contacted Essex police about the find of a silencer in the gun cupboard, on 11th September 1985...

How could Boutflour find a silencer in the gun cupboard on 11th September 1985, if he had already searched the gun cupboard on 10th August 19895m and already handed that into DS Jones , via Peter Eaton on 12th August 1985? How many silencers did Boutflour find in the gun cupboard, one or two different ones?

How could Peter Eaton (12th August 1985) and Ann Eaton (11th September 1985) hand over the same Bamber silencer, to the police? How could the same silencer, be handed over to DS Jones, and to DC oakey, on different dates, if Essex police retained possession of the same silencer from 12th August 1985, onwards?

Is that police record of Ann Eaton handing over a silencer on 11 September available? 

[mike tesko]

I would like to ask how it is known that the silencer DRB/1 was found by David Boutflour on 11th September 1985. I have found some kind of document relating to that. This is what it says.

15/20 Message form dated 11/9/85 from David BOUTFLOUR states he found silencer with blood on it. Silencer was in cardboard box in the downstairs office complete with telescopic sight which was double packed in polythene. Relevant point being it was not.

I have got that from this document.

http://jeremybamber.com/jeremybamber5.htm

What is that document and why does it say "Relevant point being it was not"?

------------------------------------

It was not collected by DS Jones, on 12th August 1985, but rather that it (Bamber silencer)was handed over to DC Oakey by Ann Eaton on 11th September 1985, a month later...

That doesn't mention anyone collecting it though, so those words "relevant point being it was not" don't make sense the way you've explained it.

The statement by Oakey about what he collected from Ann Eaton on 11th September doesn't mention a silencer.

http://www.freejeremybamber.com/files/B27.pdf

--------------------------------------------------------

Another police record makes mention of Ann Eaton handing over the silencer to DC Oakey on 11th September 1985, and a completely separate police record confirms that this silencer, was not sent to the lab' to be examined, until 26th September, 1985, for the purpose of being checked for blood, and fibers from one of Sheila's tampons...

A further police document, confirms that David Boutflour contacted Essex police about the find of a silencer in the gun cupboard, on 11th September 1985...

How could Boutflour find a silencer in the gun cupboard on 11th September 1985, if he had already searched the gun cupboard on 10th August 19895m and already handed that into DS Jones , via Peter Eaton on 12th August 1985? How many silencers did Boutflour find in the gun cupboard, one or two different ones?

How could Peter Eaton (12th August 1985) and Ann Eaton (11th September 1985) hand over the same Bamber silencer, to the police? How could the same silencer, be handed over to DS Jones, and to DC oakey, on different dates, if Essex police retained possession of the same silencer from 12th August 1985, onwards?

Is that police record of Ann Eaton handing over a silencer on 11 September available?

---------------------------------

yes...

[Kaldin]

I would like to ask how it is known that the silencer DRB/1 was found by David Boutflour on 11th September 1985. I have found some kind of document relating to that. This is what it says.

15/20 Message form dated 11/9/85 from David BOUTFLOUR states he found silencer with blood on it. Silencer was in cardboard box in the downstairs office complete with telescopic sight which was double packed in polythene. Relevant point being it was not.

I have got that from this document.

http://jeremybamber.com/jeremybamber5.htm

What is that document and why does it say "Relevant point being it was not"?

------------------------------------

It was not collected by DS Jones, on 12th August 1985, but rather that it (Bamber silencer)was handed over to DC Oakey by Ann Eaton on 11th September 1985, a month later...

That doesn't mention anyone collecting it though, so those words "relevant point being it was not" don't make sense the way you've explained it.

The statement by Oakey about what he collected from Ann Eaton on 11th September doesn't mention a silencer.

http://www.freejeremybamber.com/files/B27.pdf

--------------------------------------------------------

Another police record makes mention of Ann Eaton handing over the silencer to DC Oakey on 11th September 1985, and a completely separate police record confirms that this silencer, was not sent to the lab' to be examined, until 26th September, 1985, for the purpose of being checked for blood, and fibers from one of Sheila's tampons...

A further police document, confirms that David Boutflour contacted Essex police about the find of a silencer in the gun cupboard, on 11th September 1985...

How could Boutflour find a silencer in the gun cupboard on 11th September 1985, if he had already searched the gun cupboard on 10th August 19895m and already handed that into DS Jones , via Peter Eaton on 12th August 1985? How many silencers did Boutflour find in the gun cupboard, one or two different ones?

How could Peter Eaton (12th August 1985) and Ann Eaton (11th September 1985) hand over the same Bamber silencer, to the police? How could the same silencer, be handed over to DS Jones, and to DC oakey, on different dates, if Essex police retained possession of the same silencer from 12th August 1985, onwards?

Is that police record of Ann Eaton handing over a silencer on 11 September available?

---------------------------------

yes...

I mean can it be posted here? 

[mike tesko]

I would like to ask how it is known that the silencer DRB/1 was found by David Boutflour on 11th September 1985. I have found some kind of document relating to that. This is what it says.

15/20 Message form dated 11/9/85 from David BOUTFLOUR states he found silencer with blood on it. Silencer was in cardboard box in the downstairs office complete with telescopic sight which was double packed in polythene. Relevant point being it was not.

I have got that from this document.

http://jeremybamber.com/jeremybamber5.htm

What is that document and why does it say "Relevant point being it was not"?

------------------------------------

It was not collected by DS Jones, on 12th August 1985, but rather that it (Bamber silencer)was handed over to DC Oakey by Ann Eaton on 11th September 1985, a month later...

That doesn't mention anyone collecting it though, so those words "relevant point being it was not" don't make sense the way you've explained it.

The statement by Oakey about what he collected from Ann Eaton on 11th September doesn't mention a silencer.

http://www.freejeremybamber.com/files/B27.pdf

--------------------------------------------------------

Another police record makes mention of Ann Eaton handing over the silencer to DC Oakey on 11th September 1985, and a completely separate police record confirms that this silencer, was not sent to the lab' to be examined, until 26th September, 1985, for the purpose of being checked for blood, and fibers from one of Sheila's tampons...

A further police document, confirms that David Boutflour contacted Essex police about the find of a silencer in the gun cupboard, on 11th September 1985...

How could Boutflour find a silencer in the gun cupboard on 11th September 1985, if he had already searched the gun cupboard on 10th August 19895m and already handed that into DS Jones , via Peter Eaton on 12th August 1985? How many silencers did Boutflour find in the gun cupboard, one or two different ones?

How could Peter Eaton (12th August 1985) and Ann Eaton (11th September 1985) hand over the same Bamber silencer, to the police? How could the same silencer, be handed over to DS Jones, and to DC oakey, on different dates, if Essex police retained possession of the same silencer from 12th August 1985, onwards?

Is that police record of Ann Eaton handing over a silencer on 11 September available?

---------------------------------

yes...

I mean can it be posted here? 

--------------------------------------

You might have to view it on the Sleuthing for Justice site, or if you send me your email address, I can post you a copy, because attachments cannot be posted here at the moment because of a restricted time line, sorry for the inconvenience...

[Kaldin]

You might have to view it on the Sleuthing for Justice site, or if you send me your email address, I can post you a copy, because attachments cannot be posted here at the moment because of a restricted time line, sorry for the inconvenience...

No problem - I think maybe I should join that site. 

If there is such a document which can be proved to be genuine, and if it can be proved that the silencer with the blood was examined earlier at the lab, I can't see how the appeal judges can possibly ignore that.

[mike tesko]

You might have to view it on the Sleuthing for Justice site, or if you send me your email address, I can post you a copy, because attachments cannot be posted here at the moment because of a restricted time line, sorry for the inconvenience...

No problem - I think maybe I should join that site. 

If there is such a document which can be proved to be genuine, and if it can be proved that the silencer with the blood was examined earlier at the lab, I can't see how the appeal judges can possibly ignore that.

-----------------------------------

OK, see you on Sleuthing for justice at some point...

You may have to wait a day or so for your registration to be accepted...

[Kaldin]

Mike, on 11th September 1985 Ann Eaton handed over the telescopic sights to Oakey. Is that when you think she handed over the silencer too?

If she found the telescopic sights the same time as she found the silencer, it wasn't on 11th September according to Robert Boutflour's diary. He said that the telescopic sight was at her house on 3rd September.

[mike tesko]

Mike, on 11th September 1985 Ann Eaton handed over the telescopic sights to Oakey. Is that when you think she handed over the silencer too?

If she found the telescopic sights the same time as she found the silencer, it wasn't on 11th September according to Robert Boutflour's diary. He said that the telescopic sight was at her house on 3rd September.

--------------------------------------------
Typed version of Robert Boutflours Diary was not typed out until much later, long after last entry on 5th September 1985, which gave him time to introduce features and references that he thought might be important, out of sequence, so to speak......

[Kaldin]

What I don't understand is why all those lies needed to be told. If the silencer which was sent to the lab on 30th August had blood on it, why did police need to pretend it was found in the gun cupboard?

[Kaldin]

Mike, on 11th September 1985 Ann Eaton handed over the telescopic sights to Oakey. Is that when you think she handed over the silencer too?

If she found the telescopic sights the same time as she found the silencer, it wasn't on 11th September according to Robert Boutflour's diary. He said that the telescopic sight was at her house on 3rd September.

--------------------------------------------
Typed version of Robert Boutflours Diary was not typed out until much later, long after last entry on 5th September 1985, which gave him time to introduce features and references that he thought might be important, out of sequence, so to speak......

You mean he saw the telescopic sight at Ann's house on 11 September?

[mike tesko]

What I don't understand is why all those lies needed to be told. If the silencer which was sent to the lab on 30th August had blood on it, why did police need to pretend it was found in the gun cupboard?

--------------------------------------------------

OK, blood found inside a silencer (DB/1) sent to the Lab' on 30th August 1985, belonged to the relatives, and by the time the blood came to be analyzed, Robert Boutflour had already managed to persuade ACC Peter Simpson, to start a fresh investigation, with a view to  prosecuting Jeremy for the killings - in order to pursue such an objective, they had to find a way to make out a case for the blood having been found inside the Bamber silencer, which had not been seized or found by that stage...

Later, when the Bamber silencer was found in the gun cupboard, it was seen as an ideal opportunity to suggest that the blood had actually been found inside that silencer (DRB/1) and that the killer had used it on the gun at the time Sheila was shot and killed in the bedroom, and therefore the killer must have removed the Bamber silencer from the gun and taken it downstairs to hide it in the gun cupboard...

Police and relatives, simply moved the timing of when the Bamber silencer was found, from 11th September 1985, to 10th August 1985, and all the documentation at the lab', was altered to accommodate this approach...

This was how the Bamber silencer (DRB/1)  which was found on 11th September 1985, was treated as having been the same silencer which was sent to the Lab' on 13th August 1985 (SBJ/1), and later when a silencer was resubmitted to the Lab' on 30th August 1985 (DB/1)...

They made out a false case for the Bamber silencer having been found sooner than it was, and for it to have been submitted to the Lab' sooner than it actually was...