The (Andrew Hunter) Book draft, that never got published from seven years ago...

[JackAll]

Why are you so agressive?

Why am I aggressive?..........Sorry if you think it is aggression, but if you can't tell the difference between aggression and annoyance, maybe you shouldn't comment or make silly assumptions........

A .22 (5.5 to 5.6mm) round of the type we are talking about here, is hardly a man-stopper......yes it would hurt a lot, but unless NB took one to the head, it wouldn't drop him to the floor........and even that probably wouldn't (remember Steven Waldorf? How many rounds did he take in the head??).

The Anshutz rifle is intended for vermin, maximum size - a fox and that would need to be an accurate head or heart shot.

Jack

[JackAll]

Maybe there was a jar of Swarfega in the bathroom/kitchen.

LOL...That's my idea of sarcasm............

Funnily enough, I have got one in the kitchen.


PS....."It was...................the salmon mousse"

[Jan]

I sort of replied to your comment about her hands but somehow got it on the thread about the book- I am not good at posting yet   I don't have a problem with your comments - but unfortunately I believe the crime scene forensics were not carried out properly as at the time they were so convinced about what had happened - it appears that there were at least 20 officers trampling all over the scene moving things and also lots of records are still hidden under PII so how do we know what the truth is . If there was a cover up - as it appears there was ( for example the bible was never shown to the jury as far as I know0 then you have to cover up a lot of things - so for example saying her feet were clean - where as now photos have emerged with blood on them - so how do we KNOW what was on her hands. We don't unfortunately.

[Steve_uk]

The silencer mark is explained and possible explanations for this are self evident if you have read the full draft .
    There is clear evidence that Pargeters' gun with silencer fitted was also present at the farmhouse and much to suggest it was used in the killings .
   The silencer mark was on the non fatal wound . The prosecution evidence says that the only opportunity for Sheila's blood to enter the silencer was from a contact shot , thus meaning that she could not have removed the silencer after the fatal contact shot . The new evidence shows that the fatal shot was non contact .
   It is not credible anymore to rely on silencer evidence anyway . This is another matter thoroughly dealt with in Hunter's upcoming book and elsewhere . How many silencers do you think police had possession of and do you have any faith in the silencer evidence as presented to the court ?
 

The problem the silencer mark throws up is that you're back to Sheila having returned it to the gun cupboard when the blood spatter evidence on the nightie suggests that she lay down in close proximity when both shots were fired.

[Steve_uk]

Why does that remark ring alarm bells ? The rest of what you say would be easily provable ( the possibility of the the window being locked from outside that is ) . Was this shown to be possible ?
    None of this is substantive enough to infer guilt anyway . I don't get your reasoning it doesn't seem very vigorous .

Why would Jeremy taunt detectives that some windows at White House may have been secure and some insecure after five members of his family had just been killed? How did Julie come up with the idea of anyone entering and leaving by this means if not by Jeremy speculating out loud that this was possible?

[maggie]

I was being sarcastic.......
But the rest of what you say is in line with what I know of SB/C.........incapable of most things mechanical.
Bullet grease / lube is even more difficult to remove than lead powder, so a general swab of the hands wouldn't remove it..........a thorough wash with strong liquid detergent or medical alcohol might do it.
Jack

Removal of blood and element residue iron, pottasium, magnesium etc would also
require dedicated removal , it doesn't all disappear with a wipe of a cloth. It would seep and dry
in the lines and folds of the hands. Needs a good scrub to remove.
I did appreciate your sarcasm   

[lookout]

The problem the silencer mark throws up is that you're back to Sheila having returned it to the gun cupboard when the blood spatter evidence on the nightie suggests that she lay down in close proximity when both shots were fired.

Hi Steve,,Sheila would have had to have lain with her head hanging over the edge of the bed to have got that last shot,unless bullets can turn corners.
I can't yet understand that if someone is on the floor,in a prostrate position,and someone else fires the shot,it wouldn't go upright,,it would go straight through to the back of the neck.
Only if you position yourself in the direction to where the bullet is intended,will you get shots such as Sheila received. In other words,,they were self-inflicted.

[campion]

If Sheila was on the bed, with 1bullet wound in the neck, when she was pronounced dead by Dr Craig, then how comes it that she can be said to have 'self inflicted' the subsequent mortal when there were countless police personnel in the Master Bedroom? We're they the Venetian variety (blind!)?

[grahameb]

Why am I aggressive?..........Sorry if you think it is aggression, but if you can't tell the difference between aggression and annoyance, maybe you shouldn't comment or make silly assumptions........

A .22 (5.5 to 5.6mm) round of the type we are talking about here, is hardly a man-stopper......yes it would hurt a lot, but unless NB took one to the head, it wouldn't drop him to the floor........and even that probably wouldn't (remember Steven Waldorf? How many rounds did he take in the head??).

The Anshutz rifle is intended for vermin, maximum size - a fox and that would need to be an accurate head or heart shot.

Jack

Why then would any other assassin use a rabbit gun? Why break in and use a .22 if the murderer was intent on killing 5 people? Not suggestive of a third person in my opinion. And please you don't know me so why don't you lighten up a bit and not be so insulting to people you know nothing about?

[grahameb]

Makes me wonder too,Grahame. Those who know-----------know too much !

Yes lookout. I get that impression as well. We've had no-it-alls on the forum before haven't we. Some people need to pull in their claws.

[Steve_uk]

Why then would any other assassin use a rabbit gun? Why break in and use a .22 if the murderer was intent on killing 5 people? Not suggestive of a third person in my opinion. And please you don't know me so why don't you lighten up a bit and not be so insulting to people you know nothing about?

The whole pretext of the murder was that Sheila had picked up the .22 anschutz which had been left lying around by Jeremy after he went to shoot rabbits,though apart from this which may have looked suspicious and Jeremy never expressed regret for so doing it was otherwise a "perfect crime" as he told Julie,because how can you possibly prove your sister did not shoot herself if you also had one hand on the gun..

[JackAll]

Why then would any other assassin use a rabbit gun? Why break in and use a .22 if the murderer was intent on killing 5 people? Not suggestive of a third person in my opinion. And please you don't know me so why don't you lighten up a bit and not be so insulting to people you know nothing about?

OK...It's lesson time.

1) Firstly I haven't insulted you, so you can get off your high horse straight away.
2) Next, don't lecture me and suggest I know nothing about people when you have just been on here and no doubt many times before with a half brained idea of something you know nothing about, particularly when it happens to be part of my profession.
3) And here's the real lesson.
That rifle appears to be an Anshutz 525 model. It cannot be fired single shot unless A) The bolt is pulled back; the magazine is released; a round inserted into the magazine; the magazine reinserted; the bolt is released forward again....Or, B) the magazine is discarded and an adapter put in it's place.

So it isn't the latter scenario, because it is clearly the magazine in the rifle..........but for it to be the former scenario; it would have taken an eternity to remove the magazine and load a single round 15/16 times (assuming it was full for the first 10 shots)..

..............certainly impossible for SB/C to have done and very improbable for JB to have done.

....................Regardless whether he had been brought up on a farm and around arms and ammunition, it would be the most illogical way of using the rifle......he wasn't exactly combat material was he??

Jack

[Steve_uk]

Hi Steve,,Sheila would have had to have lain with her head hanging over the edge of the bed to have got that last shot,unless bullets can turn corners.
I can't yet understand that if someone is on the floor,in a prostrate position,and someone else fires the shot,it wouldn't go upright,,it would go straight through to the back of the neck.
Only if you position yourself in the direction to where the bullet is intended,will you get shots such as Sheila received. In other words,,they were self-inflicted.

I think Jeremy panicked with all the bullets he had fired thus far along with the bicycle journey and the influence of the drugs and misplaced the first shot to Sheila,whereupon she was stunned and involuntarily moved her finger to the wound,hence the blood on the hand. I would have thought it would have been the easiest thing in the world to position the second shot so that it killed Sheila instantaneously.

[Patti]

OK...It's lesson time.

1) Firstly I haven't insulted you, so you can get off your high horse straight away.
2) Next, don't lecture me and suggest I know nothing about people when you have just been on here and no doubt many times before with a half brained idea of something you know nothing about, particularly when it happens to be part of my profession.
3) And here's the real lesson.
That rifle appears to be an Anshutz 525 model. It cannot be fired single shot unless A) The bolt is pulled back; the magazine is released; a round inserted into the magazine; the magazine reinserted; the bolt is released forward again....Or, B) the magazine is discarded and an adapter put in it's place.

So it isn't the latter scenario, because it is clearly the magazine in the rifle..........but for it to be the former scenario; it would have taken an eternity to remove the magazine and load a single round 15/16 times (assuming it was full for the first 10 shots)..

..............certainly impossible for SB/C to have done and very improbable for JB to have done.

....................Regardless whether he had been brought up on a farm and around arms and ammunition, it would be the most illogical way of using the rifle......he wasn't exactly combat material was he??

Jack

I didn't think it had a bolt, it had a small recoil....which a child could use.  No one knows for sure how the magazine was filled up.  It was said that after positioning 8 bullets into the magazine the last two were more difficult....I doubt one bullet at time would be sufficient enough to keep to keep 3/2 adults at bay whilst reloading....

Lets not single the sex out here.  Both Jeremy and Sheila were brought up on the farm and around guns. I personally find it odd that either of them knew how to use a gun....Its not rocket science. 

AE thought Sheila would used a 12 bore and when she found out it was a semi automatic....she said that she would not be able to use it and that a 12 bore would be easier to use...I am not gun expert, but have used a 12 bore which belonged to my father and it was heavy and hard to cock....


Can we attack the post and not the poster please....debating is fun...

[grahameb]

The whole pretext of the murder was that Sheila had picked up the .22 anschutz which had been left lying around by Jeremy after he went to shoot rabbits,though apart from this which may have looked suspicious and Jeremy never expressed regret for so doing it was otherwise a "perfect crime" as he told Julie,because how can you possibly prove your sister did not shoot herself if you also had one hand on the gun..

Steve I was arguing against a third person at the scene. Surely a third person completely unconnected with Bamber would not know about the gun being left on the settle, let along what other guns were in the house? My argument is, why woulf a third person murderer choose a rabbit gun as it is not exactly the most efficient weapon to be used in an assassin's armoury? The who scene is against the third person theory. It must be either or the other. Either it was Jeremy or it was Sheila.
My original post was that Sheila was quite capable of the murders of 4 family members and with the first magazine she could very well disable everyone in the house and then take her time in loading the gun. She needen't have loaded the magazine fully either. And a so called "fight" with Ralph need not have taken place? Indeed he could have been beaten after he had been disabled. So you see my argument is not so lame as has been suggested and ridiculed by some.