Crime scene video - taken as part of training exercise - bodies insitu...

[mike tesko]

Such a large amnount of blood around the face could be caused by the use of cpr?

That's a very interesting observation, yet nobody says they attempted it?

It is also very interesting that there are other bloodstains on the other side of her neck near to her chin, which are absent in the earlier photograph?

Could these bloodstains be linked to CPR, activity?

[mike tesko]

In David Shaws account (Innocent man) he talks about police at the scene giving Sheila CPR to try and keep her alive, I wonder if this is what he was referring to, what I mean is this image with all this additional blood around the mouth, face and throat?

[mike tesko]

In David Shaws account (Innocent man) he talks about police at the scene giving Sheila CPR to try and keep her alive, I wonder if this is what he was referring to, what I mean is this image with all this additional blood around the mouth, face and throat?

What is also interesting, is that none of this blood was leaking at all from the corners of her mouth in the photographs I have seen of Sheila on the bed. Furthermore, she only had one wound to her neck at that time, so it looks like Sheila was shot for the second time, after PC Bird (SOC) started to take his crime scene pictures, and which resulted in Sheila being moved to the bedroom floor, and that once she was moved there, somebody attempted CPR to keep her alive, but why would they do that if Sheila had already been dead for over seven to eight hours?

[grahameb]

That's a very interesting observation, yet nobody says they attempted it?

It is also very interesting that there are other bloodstains on the other side of her neck near to her chin, which are absent in the earlier photograph?

Could these bloodstains be linked to CPR, activity?

I'll be interested in hearing mertol's observation on this one. I'm just wondering if blood flowed so freely out of the wounds both outside and inside the body of Sheila. Could this be an indication that the time of death was very close to when the photos were taken?

[mike tesko]

What is also interesting, is that none of this blood was leaking at all from the corners of her mouth in the photographs I have seen of Sheila on the bed. Furthermore, she only had one wound to her neck at that time, so it looks like Sheila was shot for the second time, after PC Bird (SOC) started to take his crime scene pictures, and which resulted in Sheila being moved to the bedroom floor, and that once she was moved there, somebody attempted CPR to keep her alive, but why would they do that if Sheila had already been dead for over seven to eight hours?

Based on this startling discovery, it seems obvious to me, that and because other photographs of Sheila on the bed with no blood running or leaking from the corners of her mouth, and only one wound to her neck exist, and that she is then moved to the bedroom floor and photographed by PC Bird (SOC) again, that these images were taken before the video footage from which this still has been taken was took, that it might well have been recorded on the video footage when and by whom the CPR (if it was applied) was given? This might be true if any CPR was administered before the still from the video footage was actually taken? This is why access to that video recording is of paramount importance to Jeremy's application to the CCRC to get his case referred back to appeal. Anyway, if CPR was being administered around or soon after 10am, then under no circumstances could Sheila have already been dead from as long ago as 3am, or beyond, and Jeremy could not possibly be responsible for killing Sheila by shooting her under the chin with the second fatal shot because the pathologist, Peter Venezis, has gone on record as saying that as soon as the shot under the chin was fired or discharged into her brain death would have followed instantaneously...

Ok, then...

So, if police at the scene administered CPR, why would they be doing that at around 10am, if Sheila was shot and killed by Jeremy, and he had shot her under the chin at some godforsaken unearthly hour prior to 3am?

I think not...

[mike tesko]

I'll be interested in hearing mertol's observation on this one. I'm just wondering if blood flowed so freely out of the wounds both outside and inside the body of Sheila. Could this be an indication that the time of death was very close to when the photos were taken?

Yes, mertols view might be important...

[Gillian]

The first photograph shown on this topic is, if I'm not mistaken, the photograph that we were discussing in the 'opinions' topic started by andrea regarding the You Tube video and whether the photograph of Sheila, heavily bloodstained, was actually her or the actress in the video.  If I'm correct this means that this is proof that the photograph is indeed Sheilas.

[Chochokeira]

Notice the blood run just under the right nostril. Compare the two photos. Also the two neck wounds are in exactly the same place. Look also at the hairline. Exactly the same.

The shape of the chin, the slight protrudence under the lower lip and the contours of the area between the lower lip and chin are distinctive too and these are the same in both photos.

[Alias]

That's a very interesting observation, yet nobody says they attempted it?

It is also very interesting that there are other bloodstains on the other side of her neck near to her chin, which are absent in the earlier photograph?Could these bloodstains be linked to CPR, activity?

That is indeed puzzling. It looks like smears - and must be smears, since there is no source of bleeding in that area of her face.
Who made the smear?

Mike, I asked in another thread, but this is the appropriate place; but how can you with such certainty conclude that the picture is from a video? To me it looks like a still photography.

[mike tesko]

That is indeed puzzling. It looks like smears - and must be smears, since there is no source of bleeding in that area of her face.
Who made the smear?

Mike, I asked in another thread, but this is the appropriate place; but how can you with such certainty conclude that the picture is from a video? To me it looks like a still photography.

PC Bird only visited the bedroom twice, and took pictures of June and Sheila, then went elsewhere in the farmhouse, before returning to take two pictures of Sheila's feet. At what stage do you think this image was taken, during the first visit to the bedroom, or the second? Where is the negative for this picture? Nobody knows anything about such a negative, or that Sheila had all this blood all over her face and neck whilst her body was insitu at the scene...

Forget it being a photograph, it's definitely a still taken from the crime scene video, the same video that PS Adams referred to when he spoke to COLP in 1991 about what took place at the debriefing which was held at Witham on evening of 7th August 1985...

Video of crime scene exists but they don't want to disclose it to Jeremy, and there has to be a good reason for that, my guess is that there is something contained in the video which would signal the collapse of the case against him...

[mike tesko]

As I say, there is no reason why all this additional blood on Sheila's face and neck, should be there because her body has not been moved to any significant extent, between photographs, other than possibly her head, and it leads me to conclude that all this additional blood must be linked to CPR having been applied?

I would love to know the extent of the delay between the photograph of Sheila on the floor with the rifle against her neck and fresh looking blood which is running and leaking from the wound and the corner of her mouth, and the time when the video footage was taken at the point when she has all this blood on her face and neck was taken?

[mike tesko]

Another way of looking at this image which shows all this blood on Sheila's face and neck, is to consider the possibility that it was taken before the other pictures and that Sheila was cleaned up and then her body stage managed with the rifle in various positions on her body or against her neck?

Did police clean up Sheila's face and neck before some crime scene pictures were taken by PC Bird (SOC)?

[Roch]

Another way of looking at this image which shows all this blood on Sheila's face and neck, is to consider the possibility that it was taken before the other pictures and that Sheila was cleaned up and then her body stage managed with the rifle in various positions on her body or against her neck?

Did police clean up Sheila's face and neck before some crime scene pictures were taken by PC Bird (SOC)?

It's funny you should mention that.  I actually wondered about that my self.  But I persuaded my self that the clean up job was too good and it was therefore unlikely.

[Roch]

Our cousins in the guilty camp have expressed the view that blood seeped out in such copious amounts, due to blood having welled up in the mouth area.  I further suggested that the wounds would be connected to this area.  The blood seeped out of the wounds and then also seeped out of the mouth, when Sheila was moved.  I still suspect later death for Sheila as per my previous stance. But why have we not seen the response from the authorities to the submissions made under the GDS period regarding the Italian professors' work?

I've copy & pasted my own post on to this thread, from the 'Jackie Preece' thread.  Mike do you know how the authorities responded to the submissions under GDS, containing the report referenced above?  I believe there may also have been a letter to the Home Secretary or at least the CCRC. It's on the GDS legal site.

[ngb1066]

I've copy & pasted my own post on to this thread, from the 'Jackie Preece' thread.  Mike do you know how the authorities responded to the submissions under GDS, containing the report referenced above?  I believe there may also have been a letter to the Home Secretary or at least the CCRC. It's on the GDS legal site.

The CCRC said that they did not attach much weight to the report of the two Italian professors because their conclusions were based only upon examination of photographs.