Author Topic: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests  (Read 9985 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2012, 08:19:AM »
If you carry out an unofficial test fire of the rifle, silencer and control ammunition, on a date prior to the date when the official test fire of the same is carried out you run the risk of cleaning out any blood that may have originally lined the barrel of the rifle, and there is opportunity to produce a replacement bullet as part of the batch of crime scene ammunition, as appears to have occurred with bullet PV/20, which as of 7th August 1985 it was a fragmented bullet, but by 20th September 1985, it had become transformed into a whole bullet...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2012, 08:21:AM »
If you carry out an unofficial test fire of the rifle, silencer and control ammunition, on a date prior to the date when the official test fire of the same is carried out you run the risk of cleaning out any blood that may have originally lined the barrel of the rifle, and there is opportunity to produce a replacement bullet as part of the batch of crime scene ammunition, as appears to have occurred with bullet PV/20, which as of 7th August 1985 it was a fragmented bullet, but by 20th September 1985, it had become transformed into a whole bullet...

The two missing control bullets which MDF says he must have lost after or during the official test fire, then become crucial in explaining where the bullets used in the unofficial test fire originated from?

Bullet (a) - used in unofficial test fire with silencer
Bullet (b) - used in unofficial test fire minus silencer
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 08:22:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2012, 08:23:AM »
The two missing control bullets which MDF says he must have lost after or during the official test fire, then become crucial in explaining where the bullets used in the unofficial test fire originated from?

Bullet (a) - used in unofficial test fire with silencer
Bullet (b) - used in unofficial test fire minus silencer

One of these control bullets (a or b) must have been used in the substitution process involving the original PV/20 and the one replaced ?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2012, 08:25:AM »
The original PV/20 (fragmented) versus the replaced PV/20 (whole)...

Somebody swapped the original for a control bullet fired via the rifle - for what reason?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2012, 08:30:AM »
The original PV/20 (fragmented) versus the replaced PV/20 (whole)...

Somebody swapped the original for a control bullet fired via the rifle - for what reason?

PV/20 was the bullet which is referred to as the non fatal wound to the side of Sheila's neck, which she received whilst she was downstairs in the region of the kitchen (if contents of log are true). The rifle to which the replaced PV/20 has since been linked or associated was spotted leaning up against the bedroom window at about 7:15am by a trained firearms instructor, WPC Julia Jeapes, so there is a huge question mark of how that rifle got from the bedroom window at 7:15am, onto Sheila's body by the time police took crime scene pictures at around 10am?

Did a different weapon fire the original fragmented PV/20 bullet downstairs?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 08:31:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2012, 08:34:AM »
PV/20 was the bullet which is referred to as the non fatal wound to the side of Sheila's neck, which she received whilst she was downstairs in the region of the kitchen (if contents of log are true). The rifle to which the replaced PV/20 has since been linked or associated was spotted leaning up against the bedroom window at about 7:15am by a trained firearms instructor, WPC Julia Jeapes, so there is a huge question mark of how that rifle got from the bedroom window at 7:15am, onto Sheila's body by the time police took crime scene pictures at around 10am?

Did a different weapon fire the original fragmented PV/20 bullet downstairs?

If you swap over or substitute the original PV/20 (fragmented) bullet and substitute it with a whole bullet so that you can link that substituted bullet to the rifle which was photographed on Sheila's body from 10 O'clock onwards, there is always going to be a suspicion that the reason such a substitution took place was because they wanted the replaced bullet so that they could make out that the anshulz rifle fired both shots (PV/19 and PV/20)...
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 08:35:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2012, 08:35:AM »
If you swap over or substitute the original PV/20 (fragmented) bullet and substitute it with a whole bullet so that you can link that substituted bullet to the rifle which was photographed on Sheila's body from 10 O'clock onwards, there is always going to be a suspicion that the reason such a substitution took place was because they wanted the replaced bullet so that they could make out that the anshulz rifle fired both shots (PV/19 and PV/20)...

First thing to do, is find out where the substituted (PV/20) whole bullet originated from?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 08:36:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2012, 08:37:AM »
First thing to do, is find out where the substituted (PV/20) whole bullet originated from?

It also needs to be found out, what happened to the original fragmented (PV/20) bullet?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2012, 08:39:AM »
It also needs to be found out, what happened to the original fragmented (PV/20) bullet?

There also needs to be an investigation into how an exhibit bearing the pathologists identifying mark (PV/20) and signature could have been tampered with without the knowledge and consent of the pathologist in question?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 09:26:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2012, 08:40:AM »
Did the unofficial test firing of the rifle with control bullets clear the inner lining of the barrel of the rifle so that by the time MDF applied the cloth pull through test any dried blood which was present inside the lining of the barrel was blasted out into the silencer?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2012, 08:42:AM »
Did the unofficial test firing of the rifle with control bullets clear the inner lining of the barrel of the rifle so that by the time MDF applied the cloth pull through test any dried blood which was present inside the lining of the barrel was blasted out into the silencer?

Who actually carried out the unofficial test firing of the rifle, silencer an control ammunition, when and where?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

tyler

  • Guest
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2012, 08:58:AM »
Although I do realise that bullets get hot and can deform,but I firmly believe that 10 of the bullets couldnt be matched to the Anshutz simply because they came from another weapon entirely.Possibly the weapon that (was it Cook)? took from the farm that morning.The weapon that Davidson refers to in his COLP interview as having been found in the kitchen.If 15 shots were fired from the Anshutz and 10 from a different weapon,then Sheila/or killer would not have had to reload any weapon.
I dont know where the rumour came from that Nevill kept a gun under his bed for the purpose of shooting prowling foxes,but according to Jeremy,a loaded gun was always kept in the kitchen for this very purpose.If
 Nevill was indeed in fear of his life,so much so that he needed a panic alarm installed,then it would make sense anyway that Nevill would keep a loaded weapon avaliable.Especially living in a remote farmhouse.

Offline vidvic

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
  • R.i 99.9
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2012, 09:03:AM »
Although I do realise that bullets get hot and can deform,but I firmly believe that 10 of the bullets couldnt be matched to the Anshutz simply because they came from another weapon entirely.Possibly the weapon that (was it Cook)? took from the farm that morning.The weapon that Davidson refers to in his COLP interview as having been found in the kitchen.If 15 shots were fired from the Anshutz and 10 from a different weapon,then Sheila/or killer would not have had to reload any weapon.
I dont know where the rumour came from that Nevill kept a gun under his bed for the purpose of shooting prowling foxes,but according to Jeremy,a loaded gun was always kept in the kitchen for this very purpose.If
 Nevill was indeed in fear of his life,so much so that he needed a panic alarm installed,then it would make sense anyway that Nevill would keep a loaded weapon avaliable.Especially living in a remote farmhouse.

Why then has the defence always maintained that the anshutz was the only weapon involved? Is it because there is absolutely no proof that another weapon was ever used?
rumor vagatus stulti et acceptantur a Idiotae

tyler

  • Guest
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2012, 09:14:AM »
Why then has the defence always maintained that the anshutz was the only weapon involved? Is it because there is absolutely no proof that another weapon was ever used?

Unfortunately there is a lack of proof to many things surrounding this case,isnt there?
For instance,where is the proof that DB found a silencer in a cupboard?Yet he maintains that it happened!
I didnt just pull this out of thin air.I am going by the COLP interview of Davidson,who refers to a weapon having been found in the kitchen that had red paint upon its barrel and had taken a hard knock.
This weapon could surely not have been the Anshutz as -  a)he would have said so. and b) the Anshutz (according to the official line) was at that stage allegedly upon Sheilas body in the main bedroom.

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17587
Re: cloth pull through of guns barrel - unreliable in view of tests
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2012, 09:16:AM »
Why then has the defence always maintained that the anshutz was the only weapon involved? Is it because there is absolutely no proof that another weapon was ever used?

I've wanted to know this also.  As the defence seem at odds with Mike Tesko, re the crime being a one gun crime.  Maybe Neil can shed some further light on this?