Some on here hide behind "false identity" when making allegations?

[mertol22]

Look at this way, if jb's legal teams past and present, thought this was a definate MOJ, wouldnt they be screaming it form the rooftops?

Hi Andrea, the answer to your point is yes , but it seems to me no one is interested, society moves on and its an old case with a judgement and sentence passed,for such crimes taken place i would not expect JB  to be where he is now ,rather some top security hospital, and that part is a debateable issue.

[andrea]

When the yorkshire ripper was tried, his defence pleaded insanity, diminished responsibility, anyway he wasnt believed and was sent to hmp leeds, he is now in broadmoor.

I dont think jb was insane, it was greed. pure and simple.

[andrea]

im off, see you later x

[Roch]

Jeremy's legal teams have all viewed the case as a miscarriage of justice and have tried to break through the wall of obstruction which has been placed in their way by the prosecution.

Totally agree Neil.

[Chochokeira]

When the yorkshire ripper was tried, his defence pleaded insanity, diminished responsibility, anyway he wasnt believed and was sent to hmp leeds, he is now in broadmoor.

I dont think jb was insane, it was greed. pure and simple.

I don't believe anyone so brutalised could possibly be sane, Andrea.

Anyone who would masacre their entire immediate family, their mother, father, sister and two little nephews in the brutal and cold blooded manner with which Poor June, Nevill, Sheila and the boys were murdered had to be severely mentally ill.

Yet 20 odd psychologists have tested Jeremy and found that he is slightly more sane than the average person.

Hartley will claim these psycholgists were wrong, as presumably so will you. But I say, with respect, you are both wrong.

[Hartley]

I don't believe anyone so brutalised could possibly be sane, Andrea.

Anyone who would masacre their entire immediate family, their mother, father, sister and two little nephews in the brutal and cold blooded manner with which Poor June, Nevill, Sheila and the boys were murdered had to be severely mentally ill.

Yet 20 odd psychologists have tested Jeremy and found that he is slightly more sane than the average person.

Hartley will claim these psycholgists were wrong, as presumably so will you. But I say, with respect, you are both wrong.

I have not made any such claims, please stick to what I have said rather than trying to second guess what I might say. Thanks Choc.

[Chochokeira]

I have not made any such claims, please stick to what I have said rather than trying to second guess what I might say. Thanks Choc.

Then please explain how a man who is more sane than average could be so brutalised as to masacre his entire immediate family.

You can't though, can you, Hartley? You'll dodge the question, just as you dodge all such issues.

[Hartley]

Then please explain how a man who is more sane than average could be so brutalised as to masacre his entire immediate family.

You can't though, can you, Hartley? You'll dodge the question, just as you dodge all such issues.

Again please do not try and second guess what I am going to do, but feel free to comment on what I actually do. I'm not dodging anything and have never dodged or shied away from any issue.

I have no idea why some people are capable of certain things, but I also do not think insanity or illness in the medical sense is a common indicator. If it was, then every single convicted murderer would fall foul of such diagnosis and end up in a medical institution rather than a high security Category A prison.

Let's apply this logic to other cases. Is Steve Wright insane or ill? What about Ian Brady, Dennis Nilsen, Donald Neilson, Rose & Fred West, Douglas Vinter, Ian Huntley, Robert Maudsley, Jogn Childs, etc, etc, etc. Are they all insane or ill? Or are they a product of their surroundings or are they simply warped and evil?

I'm not an expert and can only give my lay interpretation, I believe that Jeremy is guilty as convicted based on the evidence and details of the case which I have seen, it's as simple as that.

[Chochokeira]

If my nephew turned to me with a deadpan expression and said, "I could quite easily kill my parents", Auntie Choch, I would be so shocked and worried that he was psychotic that I would speak to his parents about this right away. I know what my brother's response would be, he'd first speak to my nephew then ensure that he saw a psychiatrist at the earliest opportunity. I would encourage my brother to get help for my nephew.

If it's true that Jeremy Bamber told his uncle, with psychotic seriousness, that he could quite easily kill his parents, then Jeremy must have had dire psychological issues and required treatment for these. 

Personally don't believe Jeremy said this, I think a meaningless joke or a piece of hyperbole was taken out of all context and hyped up into something it was not.

Yet it remains that antis have no explanation whatsoever for how a man judged more sane than the average person and by a whole tribe of psychologists allegedly, according to his extended family, behaved like a psychotic.

[Jackiepreece]

Andrea
I am shocked how you can change your mind from JB being innocent to guilty without any further evidence being released to make the case stronger that he is guilty

I am especially shocked as you have been having private communications writing letters to Jeremy in prison

I know you have said before you are in contact with HorseyDave has something he said changed your mind?

[Hartley]

If my nephew turned to me with a deadpan expression and said, "I could quite easily kill my parents", Auntie Choch, I would be so shocked and worried that he was psychotic that I would speak to his parents about this right away. I know what my brother's response would be, he'd first speak to my nephew then ensure that he saw a psychiatrist at the earliest opportunity. I would encourage my brother to get help for my nephew.

If it's true that Jeremy Bamber told his uncle, with psychotic seriousness, that he could quite easily kill his parents, then Jeremy must have had dire psychological issues and required treatment for these. 

Personally don't believe Jeremy said this, I think a meaningless joke or a piece of hyperbole was taken out of all context and hyped up into something it was not.

Yet it remains that antis have no explanation whatsoever for how a man judged more sane than the average person and by a whole tribe of psychologists allegedly, according to his extended family, behaved like a psychotic.

I don't believe that grouping people together and calling them "anti's" gives a true indication of peoples opinions. There are no doubt differing views from individuals within that group.

It's actually a very minor point point, and whether it happened or not would not in my opinion significantly add or subtract from the case put forward by the prosecution.

On the other hand we do have several witnesses who all state that such an incident took place, maybe you would say that they all lied because they are perceived to have a vested interest. Fair enough if that's your opinion, but clearly others disagree with you. What do you want me to do about it?

I think your argument is more philosophical in nature rather than being particularly relevant to Jeremys conviction. In my opinion.

[grahameb]

I agree, but we are only GUESSING at what is being witheld under pii rules.

None of us know, what is being witheld, it could be related to the horseplay, it could be anything.

This case has rumbled on for 26yrs, what is the official line from the legal team? what do THEY think is being witheld?  Its their opinion that matters.

In actual fact it doesn't matter what has been witheld. It is the fact that it has been witheld. The fact that literally 1000's of pages of evidence has been witheld and many photographs as well.
The reason they were witheld doesn't come into it in a way. But that should be reason enough to constitute a miscarriage of justice.
Moreover although we may be speculating what is in those documents (evidence) one thing is certain. They are certainly important enough for the relevant authorities to be very very reluctant to hold onto them. If they are that important then they must have a bearing on the case. And if you look at the reasons that the CCRC provisionally against referral then this makes it very obvious that someone is doing their damnedest to keep Jeremy in prison.

[grahameb]

If my nephew turned to me with a deadpan expression and said, "I could quite easily kill my parents", Auntie Choch, I would be so shocked and worried that he was psychotic that I would speak to his parents about this right away. I know what my brother's response would be, he'd first speak to my nephew then ensure that he saw a psychiatrist at the earliest opportunity. I would encourage my brother to get help for my nephew.

If it's true that Jeremy Bamber told his uncle, with psychotic seriousness, that he could quite easily kill his parents, then Jeremy must have had dire psychological issues and required treatment for these. 

Personally don't believe Jeremy said this, I think a meaningless joke or a piece of hyperbole was taken out of all context and hyped up into something it was not.

Yet it remains that antis have no explanation whatsoever for how a man judged more sane than the average person and by a whole tribe of psychologists allegedly, according to his extended family, behaved like a psychotic.

Remember it was only Robert Boutflour's word that Jeremy said that. But people do tend to believe it although there is actually no proof that he ever said it at all. I've just noticed that Hartley said that other witnesses can back up what was said by RB? I admit that I haven't looked to see if there are any. But I'm willing to admit if there are if the relevent documents were at hand?

[Hartley]

In actual fact it doesn't matter what has been witheld. It is the fact that it has been witheld. The fact that literally 1000's of pages of evidence has been witheld and many photographs as well.
The reason they were witheld doesn't come into it in a way. But that should be reason enough to constitute a miscarriage of justice.
Moreover although we may be speculating what is in those documents (evidence) one thing is certain. They are certainly important enough for the relevant authorities to be very very reluctant to hold onto them. If they are that important then they must have a bearing on the case. And if you look at the reasons that the CCRC provisionally against referral then this makes it very obvious that someone is doing their damnedest to keep Jeremy in prison.

That's a difficult one Grahame, and perhaps all about perspectives. For example, if the contents of withheld evidence do not detract from the prosecutions case put forward, or add the the defences case put forward, then a MOJ has not occurred.
The difficulty comes when people are asked to interpret any released evidence and give an opinion whether it would have assisted the defence or hindered the prosecution and ultimately have had an effect upon the Jury. Currently that interpretation is a responsibility which initially is down to the CCRC and then the Court of Appeal. Perhaps you think that the system should be different.

With regards to evidence which has been released when previously it was unavailable, it's worth noting that there hasn't actually been anything released which is indicative of a MOJ, with the possible exception of the current submission to the CCRC of course, but we'll have that answer as well in the not too distant future.

[Hartley]

Remember it was only Robert Boutflour's word that Jeremy said that. But people do tend to believe it although there is actually no proof that he ever said it at all. I've just noticed that Hartley said that other witnesses can back up what was said by RB? I admit that I haven't looked to see if there are any. But I'm willing to admit if there are if the relevent documents were at hand?

I believe it's in Anns statement as well, we obviously don't have access to all of the statements and trial transcripts, but I also do not recall if I have seen Jeremy deny the incident. I don't know whether he has or hasn't.

Although as I've said above, this is a very minor issue, you could remove it altogether and it would have no bearing. The weird thing is, from what we have read about Jeremy and his arrogance, I think even you would agree that it's something which you could imagine him saying, could you not?