you should all know this?

[grahameb]

As I understand it Mike/Smiffy, this is what you now want us to believe...

The police made a massive balls-up, not realising Sheila was still alive, let her run upstairs and shoot herself, then the doctor ballsed up by certifying her dead when she wasn't, then the police ballsed up again trying to stage her suicide (which is odd in itself - why stage the suicide of someone you found to have committed suicide?) and shot her again themselves, killing her.

At this stage they shat themselves royally, so set about the cover-up.

Miraculously, it worked and the murder-suicide theory was accepted by those that mattered (after all it was a murder-suicide almost).

The police breath a masive sign of relief, realising they've got away with the monumental cock-ups, but technically no real harm has been done, the murderess did shoot herself once, so they can all get on with their lives and mostly sleep ok at night.

Then the relatives come along and say "can you help us pin it on Jemery so we can have his cash?", and rather than think to themselves "you're having laugh, we've only just managed to get away with killing her ourselves", they get back into a huddle and agree to risk the careers and liberties they've just saved by the skin of their teeth to help frame a man for the benefit of people that most of them don't even know. And all this depsite one of their number saying he wouldn't play ball so maybe they had to knock him off too?

Quite frankly it beggars belief that anybody even considers any of this a remote possibility.
Do any of you really believe this could happen in the real world?

Unfortunately it does happen in the real world and there are miscarriages of justice to prove it. What you haven't considered of course in Mike's claim to have met with a character called "Z" is that he was right about the two silencers. For this is one of the considerations of Jeremy's legal team. It is generally believed that there were two silencers. So Mikes explanation of this is a distinct possibility.

So what was the motivation for all those involved (and we must be talking about maybe 20 people?) to risk their careers & pensions, and risk going to jail, to enter into such a conspiracy, when they have only just gotten away with such a massive cock-up?

It didn't happen Grahame.

Well according to Mike it was because they realised they shot Sheila by accident? But I'm not arguing motives. I haven't enough information for that. What I am saying is that Mike was right about there being two silencers. Because that is exactly what Jeremy and his team are considering.

[bob]

As I understand it Mike/Smiffy, this is what you now want us to believe...

The police made a massive balls-up, not realising Sheila was still alive, let her run upstairs and shoot herself, then the doctor ballsed up by certifying her dead when she wasn't, then the police ballsed up again trying to stage her suicide (which is odd in itself - why stage the suicide of someone you found to have committed suicide?) and shot her again themselves, killing her.

At this stage they shat themselves royally, so set about the cover-up.

Miraculously, it worked and the murder-suicide theory was accepted by those that mattered (after all it was a murder-suicide almost).

The police breath a masive sign of relief, realising they've got away with the monumental cock-ups, but technically no real harm has been done, the murderess did shoot herself once, so they can all get on with their lives and mostly sleep ok at night.

Then the relatives come along and say "can you help us pin it on Jemery so we can have his cash?", and rather than think to themselves "you're having laugh, we've only just managed to get away with killing her ourselves", they get back into a huddle and agree to risk the careers and liberties they've just saved by the skin of their teeth to help frame a man for the benefit of people that most of them don't even know. And all this depsite one of their number saying he wouldn't play ball so maybe they had to knock him off too?

Quite frankly it beggars belief that anybody even considers any of this a remote possibility.
Do any of you really believe this could happen in the real world?

Unfortunately it does happen in the real world and there are miscarriages of justice to prove it. What you haven't considered of course in Mike's claim to have met with a character called "Z" is that he was right about the two silencers. For this is one of the considerations of Jeremy's legal team. It is generally believed that there were two silencers. So Mikes explanation of this is a distinct possibility.

So what was the motivation for all those involved (and we must be talking about maybe 20 people?) to risk their careers & pensions, and risk going to jail, to enter into such a conspiracy, when they have only just gotten away with such a massive cock-up?

It didn't happen Grahame.

Well according to Mike it was because they realised they shot Sheila by accident?

That's my point. They got away with shooting her by accident. Everybody believed the murder-suicide and the case was pretty much closed.

So why then start the process of framing JB?
It makes no sense at all.

[grahameb]

As I understand it Mike/Smiffy, this is what you now want us to believe...

The police made a massive balls-up, not realising Sheila was still alive, let her run upstairs and shoot herself, then the doctor ballsed up by certifying her dead when she wasn't, then the police ballsed up again trying to stage her suicide (which is odd in itself - why stage the suicide of someone you found to have committed suicide?) and shot her again themselves, killing her.

At this stage they shat themselves royally, so set about the cover-up.

Miraculously, it worked and the murder-suicide theory was accepted by those that mattered (after all it was a murder-suicide almost).

The police breath a masive sign of relief, realising they've got away with the monumental cock-ups, but technically no real harm has been done, the murderess did shoot herself once, so they can all get on with their lives and mostly sleep ok at night.

Then the relatives come along and say "can you help us pin it on Jemery so we can have his cash?", and rather than think to themselves "you're having laugh, we've only just managed to get away with killing her ourselves", they get back into a huddle and agree to risk the careers and liberties they've just saved by the skin of their teeth to help frame a man for the benefit of people that most of them don't even know. And all this depsite one of their number saying he wouldn't play ball so maybe they had to knock him off too?

Quite frankly it beggars belief that anybody even considers any of this a remote possibility.
Do any of you really believe this could happen in the real world?

Unfortunately it does happen in the real world and there are miscarriages of justice to prove it. What you haven't considered of course in Mike's claim to have met with a character called "Z" is that he was right about the two silencers. For this is one of the considerations of Jeremy's legal team. It is generally believed that there were two silencers. So Mikes explanation of this is a distinct possibility.

So what was the motivation for all those involved (and we must be talking about maybe 20 people?) to risk their careers & pensions, and risk going to jail, to enter into such a conspiracy, when they have only just gotten away with such a massive cock-up?

It didn't happen Grahame.

Well according to Mike it was because they realised they shot Sheila by accident?

That's my point. They got away with shooting her by accident. Everybody believed the murder-suicide and the case was pretty much closed.

So why then start the process of framing JB?
It makes no sense at all.

I have no idea Bob. It does seem to be a bit unnecessary?

[mertol22]

It fits together rather too easily, get Jeremy into court  get the result and everyone walks away everyone bar Jeremy Bamber.

[bob]

It fits together rather too easily, get Jeremy into court  get the result and everyone walks away everyone bar Jeremy Bamber.

Eh? It's quite the opposite.
It was already sorted. Murder-suicide, jobs & pensions saved.
Starting up the whole Jeremy thing was an enormous unnecessary risk, and no way would they have all agreed to it.

[mike tesko]

I don't think the police thought that Jeremy would be convicted, and he almost was not...

[grahameb]

I don't think the police thought that Jeremy would be convicted, and he almost was not...

Also you have the other complication. The relatives finding the silencer.

[bob]

I don't think the police thought that Jeremy would be convicted, and he almost was not...

Why do it then?

[grahameb]

I don't think the police thought that Jeremy would be convicted, and he almost was not...

Why do it then?

See my last post Bob.

[mike tesko]

I don't think the police thought that Jeremy would be convicted, and he almost was not...

Why do it then?

My view is, it was done to safeguard the position and reputation of Essex police in their handling of the investigation, and to appease the relatives who had a hold over the police regarding the cover up, and the appalling way they handled the evidence in this case...

[mertol22]

How on earth can EP not find a silencer were they that docile?, not at the time but shortly after its found  not by EP but by a relation really this was the scene of multiple  shootings.

[chochokeira]

As I understand it Mike/Smiffy, this is what you now want us to believe...

The police made a massive balls-up, not realising Sheila was still alive, let her run upstairs and shoot herself, then the doctor ballsed up by certifying her dead when she wasn't, then the police ballsed up again trying to stage her suicide (which is odd in itself - why stage the suicide of someone you found to have committed suicide?) and shot her again themselves, killing her.

At this stage they shat themselves royally, so set about the cover-up.

Miraculously, it worked and the murder-suicide theory was accepted by those that mattered (after all it was a murder-suicide almost).

The police breath a masive sign of relief, realising they've got away with the monumental cock-ups, but technically no real harm has been done, the murderess did shoot herself once, so they can all get on with their lives and mostly sleep ok at night.

Then the relatives come along and say "can you help us pin it on Jemery so we can have his cash?", and rather than think to themselves "you're having laugh, we've only just managed to get away with killing her ourselves", they get back into a huddle and agree to risk the careers and liberties they've just saved by the skin of their teeth to help frame a man for the benefit of people that most of them don't even know. And all this depsite one of their number saying he wouldn't play ball so maybe they had to knock him off too?

Quite frankly it beggars belief that anybody even considers any of this a remote possibility.
Do any of you really believe this could happen in the real world?

Unfortunately it does happen in the real world and there are miscarriages of justice to prove it. What you haven't considered of course in Mike's claim to have met with a character called "Z" is that he was right about the two silencers. For this is one of the considerations of Jeremy's legal team. It is generally believed that there were two silencers. So Mikes explanation of this is a distinct possibility.

So what was the motivation for all those involved (and we must be talking about maybe 20 people?) to risk their careers & pensions, and risk going to jail, to enter into such a conspiracy, when they have only just gotten away with such a massive cock-up?

It didn't happen Grahame.

Well according to Mike it was because they realised they shot Sheila by accident?

That's my point. They got away with shooting her by accident. Everybody believed the murder-suicide and the case was pretty much closed.

So why then start the process of framing JB?
It makes no sense at all.

Because the extended family went over the heads of the local constabulary and complained to top brass that Jeremy had done it? Because Taff Jones was then removed from the case and top brass began taking an interest in the investigation?

[Roch]

Reading what bob, Andi and Grahame have posted.  It strikes me that the full truth of what took place prior to the raid, during the raid and in its immediate aftermath, have not yet been uncovered or volunteered.  It is therefore not possible to nail down the exact motives for any kind of 'cover our backs' re-staging. The only thing left is to speculate from what is known or strongly suspected. 

But if there was a re-staging of any kind involved, which then implemented a deception that got past a coroners inquest, surely people can see that this is extremely serious. 

RWB was going higher and higher up the chain.  Where do you think he would have stopped if ACC Simpson had f***d him off?  Since this very ACC is alleged to be at the top of those in the know at the time this was happening, it's not unfeasible that he was indeed left with a very stark choice.

[mike tesko]

Relatives got wind of the police cover up, and when Robert Boutflour went to DHQ to see his Masonic colleague, Peter Simpson, he put over such a forceful argument about exposing the cover up instigated by Essex police, that Simpson became instantly convinced that relatives were determined to make sure heads would roll if police did not arrest JB and prosecute him as the murderer...

[bob]

I don't think the police thought that Jeremy would be convicted, and he almost was not...

Also you have the other complication. The relatives finding the silencer.

Surely the silencer could just have been dismissed as irrelevant? Especially given that the relatives had taken it apart and contaminated it.