Author Topic: you should all know this?  (Read 284318 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1230 on: November 20, 2011, 10:26:PM »
It is known that there should have been two silencers kept at whf, around the time of the shootings - (1) belonging to Anthony Pargeter (relative) and (2) the other belonging to Ralph Bamber, one which was normally kept in the downstairs toilet, and the other normally kept in the gun cupboard. DS "Stan" Jones found the first silencer (SBJ/1) and the relatives found the second silencer (DRB/1)...

Nobody has asked questions about what happened to the silencer belonging to Pargeter, where it was at the material time, and at what stage police spoke to Pargeter about it?

Relatives have not even raised any questions about the existence of this second silencer, even though they must know by now, that it should have been at the scene at the time of these shootings?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 10:27:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1231 on: November 20, 2011, 10:30:PM »
When questioned again, about telling Julie in 1984, about killing all of his family, Jeremy tells the police, "She's lying"...

(taken from official interview by police, with Jeremy Bamber)...


By the way, honey, just thought I'd mention that I'm going to kill my family.

                                                   ?

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1232 on: November 20, 2011, 10:32:PM »
When questioned again, about telling Julie in 1984, about killing all of his family, Jeremy tells the police, "She's lying"...

(taken from official interview by police, with Jeremy Bamber)...


By the way, honey, just thought I'd mention that I'm going to kill my family.

                                                   ?


Don't be stupid. I don't want hear any more tittle tattle like that.

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1233 on: November 20, 2011, 10:36:PM »
Some months later....

'I'm sick of all of them, you know, I am really am going to kill them.'


'Tittle tattle! Shut up. You know I don't like to hear of that.'






chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1234 on: November 20, 2011, 10:40:PM »
Some months later....

'Did you bring the sleeping pills?'


'Why do you want them?'


'Oh, nothing really, I thought I'd just have a dry run at drugging all of my family to see if it would be feasible to do this, then burn the house down with them inside.'


That beautiful house and all of those antiques! You're going to burn the lot? How could you!'

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1235 on: November 20, 2011, 10:50:PM »
Those bl**dy sleeping pills of yours didn't work.'



'I told you that, why don't you ever listen....anyway, why did you want them? You sleep like a top.'



'I told you that! I want to use them to help me kill my family.'



'You're talking nonsense again...'



'Look at the bottle.'



'....do stop it, what's the good of that?............Honey...................?
this bottle's empty...'

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1236 on: November 20, 2011, 11:03:PM »
Two weeks later.....


'Hello, JM, good to see you, how are you?'



'I'm very well, thank you, Mr Bamber, how are you?'



Later that evening....



'Honey...?'



'Yes, darling...?



'You didn't mean what you said, did you? You know, about killing your family?



'Yes, as a matter of interest, I did, darling. Actually, I thought I might drug them and shoot them.'



Two weeks later, the telephone rings at 9 Head Street.....



'Hello, JM, how are you?'



'I'm very well, thank you, Mr Bamber, how are you?'



'Could I speak to Jeremy?'




'He's out, I'm afraid. I'll tell him you called.'



'Thank you....oh, by the way, are you coming at Christmas?'



'Yes, I'll be there, thank you for inviting me...'







chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1237 on: November 20, 2011, 11:08:PM »
No, no, no! I don't buy this. No one in their right mind would have been deceived by this. No one in their right mind would have carried on as normal and would have said nothing if all of this murderous plotting was going on.'

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1238 on: November 20, 2011, 11:44:PM »
Jeremy Bambers convictions, revolve around the manipulation of two different silencers, SBJ/1 and DRB/1 - which have been merged into the same silencer, to allow blood group evidence (A, EAP BA, AK1 and HP 2-1) and paint from the aga where scratch marks were found/created, to somehow prove the silencer was fitted to the guns barrel at the time of a struggle in the Kitchen between Ralph and his killer, and also at the time Sheila was killed in the bedroom?

Two silencers, not one...

Blood has been attributed to a silencer (DRB/1) which had not even been sent to the lab' (20th September 1985) until after the blood was grouped (between 12th and 19th September 1985), and paint found on the end of one of these silencers (DRB/1) could not have been present on the end of the first silencer sent to the lab' on 30th august 1985, because the additional marks were not scratched onto the aga surround, until September 1985, as confirmed by reference to the recent photographs taken at the scene by DI Cook (SOC) and PC Bird (SOC)...

In a nutshell...


Blood could not have been found in a silencer which did not get sent to the lab' until a date after the blood group evidence had already been obtained. Secondly, paint did not get onto the end of the silencer (DRB/1) until September 1985, and therefore there could not have been any paint on the end of the silencer submitted to the lab' on 30th August 1985...

What the police did, therefore, is to merge both silencers (SBJ/1 and DRB/1) into being the same silencer, so that they could suggest that the blood and paint had been found ion the same silencer, when in fact, it could not have been, and was of course not...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1239 on: November 20, 2011, 11:49:PM »
Jeremy Bambers convictions, revolve around the manipulation of two different silencers, SBJ/1 and DRB/1 - which have been merged into the same silencer, to allow blood group evidence (A, EAP BA, AK1 and HP 2-1) and paint from the aga where scratch marks were found/created, to somehow prove the silencer was fitted to the guns barrel at the time of a struggle in the Kitchen between Ralph and his killer, and also at the time Sheila was killed in the bedroom?

Two silencers, not one...

Blood has been attributed to a silencer (DRB/1) which had not even been sent to the lab' (20th September 1985) until after the blood was grouped (between 12th and 19th September 1985), and paint found on the end of one of these silencers (DRB/1) could not have been present on the end of the first silencer sent to the lab' on 30th august 1985, because the additional marks were not scratched onto the aga surround, until September 1985, as confirmed by reference to the recent photographs taken at the scene by DI Cook (SOC) and PC Bird (SOC)...

In a nutshell...


Blood could not have been found in a silencer which did not get sent to the lab' until a date after the blood group evidence had already been obtained. Secondly, paint did not get onto the end of the silencer (DRB/1) until September 1985, and therefore there could not have been any paint on the end of the silencer submitted to the lab' on 30th August 1985...

What the police did, therefore, is to merge both silencers (SBJ/1 and DRB/1) into being the same silencer, so that they could suggest that the blood and paint had been found ion the same silencer, when in fact, it could not have been, and was of course not...

Once you tamper with these two silencers, and the blood, and the paint, and the marks on the aga which were added much later, it has a direct effect upon the credibility of the other evidence linked to, or by which a reliance upon the use of a silencer might imply? For example, length of weapon with silencer fitted to the end of its barrel, was introduced to show that the gun so configured would have been much too long to allow Sheila an opportunity to shoot herself even if she had wanted to? Then of course, there was the suggestion that somebody else must have removed the silencer after Sheila was shot and killed in the bedroom, and taken that silencer all the way downstairs to hide and conceal it in the gun cupboard, because Sheila could not very well have done that herself because she was already dead?

Without the silencer evidence in, the prosecutions case would have been very weak indeed...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

chochokeira

  • Guest
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1240 on: November 20, 2011, 11:52:PM »
Some months later....

'Did you bring the sleeping pills?'


'Why do you want them?'


'Oh, nothing really, I thought I'd just have a dry run at drugging all of my family to see if it would be feasible to do this, then burn the house down with them inside.'


That beautiful house and all of those antiques! You're going to burn the lot? How could you!'



It's like a Whitehall farce, isn't it? Or scenes out of Arsenic and Old Lace?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy4BRNRwgo0&feature=related

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1241 on: November 21, 2011, 12:02:AM »
Jeremy Bambers convictions, revolve around the manipulation of two different silencers, SBJ/1 and DRB/1 - which have been merged into the same silencer, to allow blood group evidence (A, EAP BA, AK1 and HP 2-1) and paint from the aga where scratch marks were found/created, to somehow prove the silencer was fitted to the guns barrel at the time of a struggle in the Kitchen between Ralph and his killer, and also at the time Sheila was killed in the bedroom?

Two silencers, not one...

Blood has been attributed to a silencer (DRB/1) which had not even been sent to the lab' (20th September 1985) until after the blood was grouped (between 12th and 19th September 1985), and paint found on the end of one of these silencers (DRB/1) could not have been present on the end of the first silencer sent to the lab' on 30th august 1985, because the additional marks were not scratched onto the aga surround, until September 1985, as confirmed by reference to the recent photographs taken at the scene by DI Cook (SOC) and PC Bird (SOC)...

In a nutshell...


Blood could not have been found in a silencer which did not get sent to the lab' until a date after the blood group evidence had already been obtained. Secondly, paint did not get onto the end of the silencer (DRB/1) until September 1985, and therefore there could not have been any paint on the end of the silencer submitted to the lab' on 30th August 1985...

What the police did, therefore, is to merge both silencers (SBJ/1 and DRB/1) into being the same silencer, so that they could suggest that the blood and paint had been found ion the same silencer, when in fact, it could not have been, and was of course not...

Once you tamper with these two silencers, and the blood, and the paint, and the marks on the aga which were added much later, it has a direct effect upon the credibility of the other evidence linked to, or by which a reliance upon the use of a silencer might imply? For example, length of weapon with silencer fitted to the end of its barrel, was introduced to show that the gun so configured would have been much too long to allow Sheila an opportunity to shoot herself even if she had wanted to? Then of course, there was the suggestion that somebody else must have removed the silencer after Sheila was shot and killed in the bedroom, and taken that silencer all the way downstairs to hide and conceal it in the gun cupboard, because Sheila could not very well have done that herself because she was already dead?

Without the silencer evidence in, the prosecutions case would have been very weak indeed...

Blood group evidence (A, EAP BA, AK1 and HP 2-1) on its own would not have been sufficient to convict Jeremy, it had to be allocated to the silencer, a silencer which did not get sent to the lab' until 20th September 1985, the details of which were altered to suggest that it had been sent there on 30th August 1985, and that the crucial flake of blood had been found inside it, when of course it could not have been, because that silencer was not actually sent to the lab' until 20th September 1985. This throws up a huge question mark about where the crucial flake of blood came from? The most obvious answer would be was that it was the flake of blood which Boutflour claims he scraped from the silencer using a razor blade...

Flake of blood scraped from one of the silencers by David Boutflour using a razor blade?

Whilst being interviewed by COLPin 1991, David Boutflour told them that Essex police dealing with the shootings, knew about the flake and the fact that he had scraped it from the silencer using a razor blade, yet he id not identify to COLP which police officers he was referring to, or even at what stage he had scraped off the flake of blood from the silencer? In my opinion, it is odds on, that Boutflour scraped the flake off the second silencer, on an occasion after the other silencer was already at the lab' where it had been since and from 30th August 1985...

It is odds on, that the flake which was examined at the lab' between 12th and 19th September 1985, was the one which Boutflour had introduced, and that this was the reason why on the 20th September 1985, this second silencer was sent to the lab' to be checked for blood?

Once it was received at the lab', the date of its submission from 20th September 1985, to 30th August 1985, was easily rectified, just a simple matter of altering a few exhibit references on lab' documents, where SBJ/1, became DB/1, and then DRB/1, retrospectively (where DB/1 was the actual identifying mark of the flake handed over to the police by David Boutflour)...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1242 on: November 21, 2011, 12:04:AM »
Odd...

how Julie Mugford never once mentioned, in all the versions of her evidence, the use of a silencer in the shootings?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1243 on: November 21, 2011, 08:57:AM »
`Z` - Silencer found by relatives did not come into the equation, until after its submission to the lab` on 20th September 1985, contaminated with Paint from the forward face of the aga, at the  scene in September, whilst police were present taking pictures. Once the silencer found by the relatives arrived at the lab` on 20th September, the small flake of blood from which had been obtained the blood group activity, A, EAP BA, AK1 and HP 2-1, (between 12th and 19th September), was thus attributed, by claiming the silencer which relatives found on 11th September, had been submitted to the lab`, on a much earlier occasion, (30th September)...

By making these alterations, it enabled the blood with Sheila`s groups, and paint from the scratch marks on the aga, to be presented as cohesive evidence to support the case for this silencer (DRB/1) to have been fitted to the barrel of the rifle, at the time of a purported struggle in the kitchen between Ralph and his killer, and to be fitted to the guns barrel at the time Sheila was shot and killed in the bedroom...

It is now possible, to name the individual Conspirators, who took part in this deception:-

(1) David Boutflour
(2) Ann Eaton
(3) Anthony Pargeter
(4) Robert Boutflour
(5) DI Ronald Walter Cook (SOC)
(6) PC David Bird (SOC)
(7) DS`Stan` Jones
(8) DC Hammersley (SOC)
(9) DS Davidson (SOC)
(10) DS Eastwood
(11) PI `Bob` Miller
(12) DCI `Taff` Jones
(13) DCS `Mick` Ainsley
(14) ACC `Peter` Simpson
(15) Malcolm Fletcher (ballistics)
(16) Glynis Howard (blood)
(17) John Hayward (blood)
(18) DC Oakley

Others who took part in the seizure, retention, storage, transportation, examination and disposal of the two silencers, with the specific intention of enforcing a deception on the court where both silencers became merged together as the same one, will also be named in due course...
« Last Edit: November 21, 2011, 09:49:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: you should all know this?
« Reply #1244 on: November 21, 2011, 10:16:AM »
Key witnesses, to the fact that there not only existed a second silencer which had found its way into police possession by 13th September 1985, which in turn was submitted to the lab` to be checked for blood and fibres, on 20th September, are:-

(1) DS Davidson (SOC)
(2) DS Eastwood

Both of these police officers have signed a `General Examination Record` relating to this second silencer which was still in police possession between 13th and 20th September, at a time when the first silencer was already at the lab`, and which had been there ever since, 30th August...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...