Author Topic: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...  (Read 14768 times)

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Hartley

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #45 on: October 20, 2011, 10:03:PM »
Again I would need more information, it is written as an observation rather than an allegation as such.

Davidsons COLP interview is interesting and gives a few details about how the forms are completed, as are the exhibit officers statements, I forget who, it may be Whiddon and Howard, I'd need to check.

Another observation is that the silencer was not entered onto a CID6 form, which is a form that exhibits are entered on upon their discovery and are then transferred to the exhibit log by the exhibit officer. As the silencer was not found by the police, and entered straight into the exhibit log without a CID6 form, then perhaps that is the reason for a missing find date.

Obviously that is a lot of guess work, I'd need further information.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2011, 10:09:PM »
Again I would need more information, it is written as an observation rather than an allegation as such.

Davidsons COLP interview is interesting and gives a few details about how the forms are completed, as are the exhibit officers statements, I forget who, it may be Whiddon and Howard, I'd need to check.

Another observation is that the silencer was not entered onto a CID6 form, which is a form that exhibits are entered on upon their discovery and are then transferred to the exhibit log by the exhibit officer. As the silencer was not found by the police, and entered straight into the exhibit log without a CID6 form, then perhaps that is the reason for a missing find date.

Obviously that is a lot of guess work, I'd need further information.

Where was Anthony Pargeters silencer whilst all this was going on?

How did relatives know the silencer they found belonged to the Bamber rifle, and not to Pargeter and his rifle?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Hartley

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2011, 10:10:PM »
Again I would need more information, it is written as an observation rather than an allegation as such.

Davidsons COLP interview is interesting and gives a few details about how the forms are completed, as are the exhibit officers statements, I forget who, it may be Whiddon and Howard, I'd need to check.

Another observation is that the silencer was not entered onto a CID6 form, which is a form that exhibits are entered on upon their discovery and are then transferred to the exhibit log by the exhibit officer. As the silencer was not found by the police, and entered straight into the exhibit log without a CID6 form, then perhaps that is the reason for a missing find date.

Obviously that is a lot of guess work, I'd need further information.

Where was Anthony Pargeters silencer whilst all this was going on?

How did relatives know the silencer they found belonged to the Bamber rifle, and not to Pargeter and his rifle?

What number is that?

jackiepreece

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2011, 03:30:PM »
An interesting article below and I believe when the truth of this case is known to everyone you could even use the same newspaper heading



Newspaper Article
Christina Patterson:
Wednesday, 5 October 2011

" We prefer a crazy story to the truth"


None of us knows how we would behave if we were 20, and terrified, and in a foreign country, and in shock


Amanda Knox


In the end, it took two minutes. In the end, after four years in a prison cell shared with a killer, four years of being called a witch, and whore, and she-devil, four years of dreaming of a freedom she never thought she'd lose, and of wondering if she'd ever get to see the place she called home again, it took two minutes for an Italian court to overturn the verdict that had turned a young American woman into one of the most famous murderers in the world.
It was almost unbearable to watch. It was almost surreal, too, to see the TV crews, and satellite vans, squeezed between honey-coloured buildings in streets that were built for horses long before Perugino taught Raphael how to paint his angels and his crucifixion. It was terrible, of course, to see the mother, and sister, and brother, of a young woman who had been left to bleed to death after having her throat slashed like a pig, walking, in front of the world's cameras, into a courtroom, as if walking in front of cameras was a normal thing to do when the smiling girl you loved would never come back.
But it was terrible, too, to see the white face of the young woman in the black hooded jacket, who had waited, waited, waited for the words that were coming, and who looked as if she couldn't carry the burden of that wait for one moment more. "I need to be with people I love," she had written in the diary she kept in prison, "so I wait. And the waiting is such pain that I almost can't stand it – but I do." She stood it, for four years, because she had no choice but to stand it, just as the family of the woman she had been convicted of killing had no choice but to stand the pain of a daughter slaughtered and raped.
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When the judge spoke, in terms that some people at first found so confusing that at least one newspaper briefly ran a story on its website saying that the young woman had lost her appeal, we couldn't see her face. Moments later, she was crying. Moments after that, she was being half led, half carried out of the courtroom, her slender frame still shaking with sobs.
It's hard to imagine the path that took her from dreamy student life in the southern sun to a prison cell where she was told she'd spend 26 years for a crime she didn't commit. It's hard to imagine the path for her then boyfriend of less than two weeks, too, a young man who the world has largely ignored. American students on exchange programmes to Umbrian hill towns don't expect to be caught up in miscarriages of justice, and nor do Italians with rich parents. Like middle-class Westerners everywhere, they expect the police, and justice, to be on their side.
But the police, and justice, weren't on their side. The man in charge of the investigation into the death of Meredith Kercher, Giuliano Mignini, says he has used psychics to help him solve previous cases, and is currently appealing against a conviction of abuse of office for illegally wire-tapping the conversations of journalists. It was he who decided to question Amanda Knox through the night without a lawyer, and he who elicited the "confession" that she had been in the house with a Congolese barman called Patrick Lumumba, a confession she later said was made under duress. It was he who told the world that the young American, and the young Italian, had been involved in a strange Satanic ritual, and then a sex game that had gone wrong, and then a botched break-in, and then a jealous row.
It was he who insisted, even when a young man whose bloody handprints were found on Meredith's pillow, and who had fled to Germany, had been caught, and confessed to being in the house, which he couldn't really deny since his DNA was found all over Meredith's room, that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito were the key movers in the murder. And who carried on insisting this, even when the only story he was left with, after all the others had been demolished, was that it was "a senseless killing, without a motive". And it was he who was happy to build a case on "evidence" collected so clumsily that videos of it taking place drew howls of horror in court. There were, according to a report, more than 50 errors in the original case. One piece of "evidence" wasn't "found" for 47 days. It was found, in fact, the day after a TV programme highlighting flaws in the case.
You can see why people might think it was pretty strange of a young girl whose flatmate had been murdered to do cartwheels while waiting to be questioned by the police. You can see why they might think it was pretty awful for a young girl to incriminate a man she sometimes worked for, a man whose customers later proved he was at work when the murder took place. It was pretty strange, and it was pretty awful, though none of us knows how we'd behave if we were 20, and terrified, and in a foreign country, and in shock because our flatmate had been found dead, and because the police were suggesting we'd killed her.
You can see why a prosecutor might think that the young woman and her boyfriend might be involved in the case, and why he might want to find evidence that supported his view. You can see why he might, in the glare of the world's media, feel under pressure to solve the case as quickly as he could. But it's quite hard to see why he would stick to that case, even when the evidence for it seemed to be extremely flimsy, and why he never seemed to consider the possibility that that lack of evidence might mean he was wrong. Unless, that is, it was more important for him to be seen to be right than to solve the crime.
You can just about see why a prosecutor who was very concerned with his professional reputation, and, like many Italians, with "la bella figura", which you could translate as "making a good impression", would be determined to stick with a story that seemed to get crazier every day, and crazier even as the evidence seemed to get thinner, and you can just about see why quite a few people in Perugia would stick with it, too. Perhaps it was out of loyalty to Mignini, or anxiety about the loss of "la bella figura" for Perugia, that baying crowds outside the courtroom greeted the verdict with cries of "Vergogna!", or "Shame".
Or perhaps it was just because once there's a story, even if it's a crazy story, and even if it's not all that clear where it came from, and even if the evidence for it is very, very slender, that story seems to harden into something that feels like truth. And so it's important that that story doesn't change, because if something that feels like a kind of truth can change, then anything can change, and we all need some things in the world that don't.
Perhaps that's why the Kerchers, too, seemed reluctant to believe that Mignini might be wrong. On Monday, they talked about the "PR machine" and "hype" that surrounded Amanda Knox's appeal, as if she was a young woman trying to market a pop album, and not one trying to escape a life in jail. They were right to remind the world of the girl at the heart of this terrible story, the girl they said had been "hugely forgotten". But terrible stories don't have just one victim. "In this case," said Amanda Knox's lawyer on Monday night, "there is no winner". Just a dead girl, and a heartbroken family. And two young people who are only just beginning an escape from hell.

Offline notsure

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2015, 08:19:PM »
Im trying really hard to get to grips with all this moderator stuff but at the begjnning of this thread there is even more of it.

Might be interesting for mike to refresh his memory on this.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2015, 09:22:PM »
Im trying really hard to get to grips with all this moderator stuff but at the begjnning of this thread there is even more of it.

Might be interesting for mike to refresh his memory on this.
Mike has been discussing this matter today. http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,6775.1410.html

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2015, 10:12:PM »
Where was Anthony Pargeters silencer whilst all this was going on?

How did relatives know the silencer they found belonged to the Bamber rifle, and not to Pargeter and his rifle?

At his home in his rifle case along with his rifle.  Prior to the murders he took his rifle home with him.  When he did leave his rifle at WHF it was inside inside the same case along with his rifle.


 
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2015, 10:22:PM »
Im trying really hard to get to grips with all this moderator stuff but at the begjnning of this thread there is even more of it.

Might be interesting for mike to refresh his memory on this.

Part of why you can't understand it is because the claims make no sense.

The general gist of the allegations is that the family or police planted evidence in a different moderator than Nevill's moderator and replaced the real moderator with one form the family which was doctored.

Instead of a straight forward allegation of how this was done they come up with convoluted tales that make no sense, are contradictory and are refuted by evidence.   

The efforts more often than not are to try to create a general appearance of impropriety than to present a very specific well articulated allegation that is supported by credible evidence.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline notsure

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2015, 06:31:PM »
I think its like that with a lot of evidence , it seems to get lost in a load of piffle and it all becomes too long winded and difficult to follow.

perhaps thats the intention.

Offline Jan

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2015, 06:41:PM »
Its funny because I am sure if I was convicted on a piece of evidence that was removed from the scene and handled by members of the public and not taken from those people  in the correct forensic manner I would be shouting from the roofs about how the evidence should not be included .

And lets face it if Jeremy was guilty he had no idea that they would not find the silencer the next day.

And don't give me that rubbish about no one knowing about the possibility of blood getting in the silencer , he and the family were around guns all the time and would know how and why they were cleaned.

Offline notsure

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #55 on: August 07, 2015, 07:05:PM »
The other thing jan that concerns me is that the expert photographer couldnt find any scratch marks on the original photos and no paint droppings on the floor. I believed this expert, he had no reason to lie.

this evidence is definately dodgy.

mike and scipio make it so complicated sometimes ive almost given up reading there posts.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2015, 04:34:PM »
I think its like that with a lot of evidence , it seems to get lost in a load of piffle and it all becomes too long winded and difficult to follow.

perhaps thats the intention.

Consider the only rational allegations one could make:

Police or family doctored Nevill's moderator

There is no evidence to support that this happened.   Nothing can be cited to establish it.

Convoluted tales are made up in order to pretend there is evidence.  These convoluted tales take advantage of typos, ambiguity and even things which some may characterize as innocent errors or may characterize as just standard progress.

The fact that police reclassified the moderator DB/1 and then further reclassified it to DRB/1 is used to allege there were multiple moderators and evidence was being planted in different moderators...  They make this up because they found the fact the changes were made as useful to make their tale around.

These convoluted stories make no sense though.  The only evidence planting that would be even remotely credible is that the police or family planted blood in Nevill's moderator.  At the end of the day there is no more support for their wild convoluted tales than there is for the simple allegation.  BUT one only realizes that if they scrutinize the convoluted tales in detail.  Many just accept the claims without scrutinizing them. Others reject the claims without even bothering to try to look at them because they seem so wacky and convoluted.

At times Mike does try to put together some claims and will say things like:

A) DS Jones collected Nevill's moderator from WHF on Aug 7 along with 3 other exhibits
B) Davidson fingerprinted it on Aug 9
C) The family doctored AP's moderator or one of their own and this was turned in to police on the 12th

from there he goes off into wacky land losing all train of thought in unintelligible gibberish claims of third moderators and moderators being returned to the family then back to police and claiming blood and pain were found on different moderators...

Just looking at the above claims though and trying to scrutinize them it becomes apparent Mike has zero evidence to support these claims.

He has no evidence that Jones took any exhibits from the house let alone 4.  He keeps claiming they were exhibits SBJ/1-4.  He won't show the paperwork which details what SBJ/2-4 were. Since SBJ/1 was numbered on Aug 13 obviously 2-4 were numbered after this. At the end of the day he just keeps making the allegation SBJ/1-4 were taken from WHF on Aug 7 without being able to provide a shred of evidence.  When challenged to provide evidence he says he doesn't have to post anything unless he feels like it and says he doesn't want to.

He similarly has no evidence to establish Davidson fingerprinted the moderator on Aug 9.  The only piece of evidence he submitted is a fingerprint result form.  This form indicates the items were fingerprinted on Aug 16 or 1-2 days earlier.  It doesn't say who fingerprinted the items, other documents state such.  Those documents reveal Cook fingerprinted the on Aug 15. He claims he has other evidence but refuses to reveal it because he doesn't want to.  So again we are left with no evidence just his claim he has evidence that he refuses to post.

He has no evidence to prove the family doctored the moderator they handed in he just has his unsupported allegation.

So at the end of the day these 3 claims are all just unsupported allegations.

The rest of the stuff he argues constantly changes and makes no sens eon top of being crafted around innocent things like the exhibits being redesignated or typos.  It doesn't even pay to try to keep up with the rest. It's like playing whack a mole.

If he were serious he would post a rational allegation and then post credible evidence to back it up.
 
The moderator claims are just some of his allegations.  He has other wild allegations of police shooting Sheila and moving her body around and shooting the victims with blanks that make no sense. It is bad enough not to have evidentiary support for your allegations but at least come up with something that makes sense for Pete sake.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2015, 04:57:PM »
Nobody's talking about " doctoring ". Contamination is the operative word.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #58 on: August 08, 2015, 06:15:PM »
Nobody's talking about " doctoring ". Contamination is the operative word.

Innocent contamination resulting in blood on the first 8 baffles is not possible. Intentional contamination is simply another way of saying doctoring the evidence by planting it.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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Re: A Must Read - for all those seeking the truth in this matter...
« Reply #59 on: August 08, 2015, 06:38:PM »
Innocent contamination resulting in blood on the first 8 baffles is not possible. Intentional contamination is simply another way of saying doctoring the evidence by planting it.







No,they're two entirely different things. Intentional contamination is knowing. Innocent contamination is sheer carelessness in everyone handling an item without gloves.