An acid test for forum members

[bob]

Yeah Jackie, it was indeed third hand as it happens.

I'm meeting a member of Jeremy's original defence team on Sunday evening to discuss aspects of the case. Anything to report will clearly be second hand, but I'm not sure I'll waste my time.

I for one like to here what you have to say Sparks - except about clairvoyants 

[Alias]

I think most of us agree it was an unfair trial.

What bothered me about this case, more than anything, was how on earth those two shots went into Shelia, under what circumstances, from what angle, and from whom.

I know some members don't like me to mention McDonald - but he is the only person who ever explained this in detail. Fabrication or not. If he was the fantasist he was known to be then he was thinking outside of the box on this occasion.



Perhaps this was a form of personal escapism - it certainly never ended up in the domain of Essex Police at the time, or for all anyone knows, since.

Could you (or someone) please let us have McDonald's detailed explanation of the shots to SC? I don't think this is on the forum  , but if it is could it be stuck up here?

McDonalds words are not recorded anywhere in written word to my knowledge.

As this is coming from last year I will do my best -

Me. 'So how did he ( McDonald ) account for the shots into Shelia then?'

My source. 'He got her to lay down on the bedroom floor and held the rifle to her throat, she moved her head when the first shot went in and he had to shoot her again'.

Sorry if this offends or upsets anyone, I have no idea if this is true but my source has been giving me information for many years and the vast majority of what she has told me has been accurate enough for me to use as reference in my work. That is not to say her version is definitive in the respect of WHF.

I was confident enough in her word to cast her in a number of filmed interviews on Sky News re. Suffolk Serial Murders.

She also gave me confidential information of a police operation a few months ago that was spot on in terms of names, locations, timings and details. I knew about the raid which involved 60 officers before it occurred - at least a few days in fact. It turned out to be a complete fiasco.

Hi Sparks, I can't see anything groundbreaking in this statement; it is basically what people say Jeremy did.
"Moved her head", that isn't difficult to come up with when you know she was shot twice.

Personally I have such a hard time seeing how a person (one person) could face killing three children and THREE adults. It would have been exceedingly difficult for Jeremy, and almost impossible for Matthew McDonald. Having to go through a dark house, finding the rooms, finding light switches, facing, again, THREE adults!
I am not buying it. Two assassins, OK, I can see that; it would be difficult too, but not impossible. One - impossible IMO.

[andrea]

Yeah Jackie, it was indeed third hand as it happens.

I'm meeting a member of Jeremy's original defence team on Sunday evening to discuss aspects of the case. Anything to report will clearly be second hand, but I'm not sure I'll waste my time.

I for one like to here what you have to say Sparks - except about clairvoyants 

yeah ill second that bob 

[bob]

I think most of us agree it was an unfair trial.

What bothered me about this case, more than anything, was how on earth those two shots went into Shelia, under what circumstances, from what angle, and from whom.

I know some members don't like me to mention McDonald - but he is the only person who ever explained this in detail. Fabrication or not. If he was the fantasist he was known to be then he was thinking outside of the box on this occasion.



Perhaps this was a form of personal escapism - it certainly never ended up in the domain of Essex Police at the time, or for all anyone knows, since.

Could you (or someone) please let us have McDonald's detailed explanation of the shots to SC? I don't think this is on the forum  , but if it is could it be stuck up here?

McDonalds words are not recorded anywhere in written word to my knowledge.

As this is coming from last year I will do my best -

Me. 'So how did he ( McDonald ) account for the shots into Shelia then?'

My source. 'He got her to lay down on the bedroom floor and held the rifle to her throat, she moved her head when the first shot went in and he had to shoot her again'.

Sorry if this offends or upsets anyone, I have no idea if this is true but my source has been giving me information for many years and the vast majority of what she has told me has been accurate enough for me to use as reference in my work. That is not to say her version is definitive in the respect of WHF.

I was confident enough in her word to cast her in a number of filmed interviews on Sky News re. Suffolk Serial Murders.

She also gave me confidential information of a police operation a few months ago that was spot on in terms of names, locations, timings and details. I knew about the raid which involved 60 officers before it occurred - at least a few days in fact. It turned out to be a complete fiasco.

Hi Sparks, I can't see anything groundbreaking in this statement; it is basically what people say Jeremy did.
"Moved her head", that isn't difficult to come up with when you know she was shot twice.

Personally I have such a hard time seeing how a person (one person) could face killing three children and THREE adults. It would have been exceedingly difficult for Jeremy, and almost impossible for Matthew McDonald. Having to go through a dark house, finding the rooms, finding light switches, facing, again, THREE adults!
I am not buying it. Two assassins, OK, I can see that; it would be difficult too, but not impossible. One - impossible IMO.

Which twosome are you thinking of Abs? JB & MacDonald? Or maybe JB & a rifle-owning relative...?

[Jackiepreece]

Sparkfilms just because I think the M character is a fantasist weirdo and that sets a theme for the girls he hangs about with doesn't mean I am not interested what his old defence team have to say

Are they allowed to talk about it and if they are they should be making a fuss about the PII issue

Very well said Abbs

[Roch]

Yeah Jackie, it was indeed third hand as it happens.

I'm meeting a member of Jeremy's original defence team on Sunday evening to discuss aspects of the case. Anything to report will clearly be second hand, but I'm not sure I'll waste my time.

I for one like to here what you have to say Sparks - except about clairvoyants

I still haven't found out what was in Shelly Cook's dream...                 

[Alias]

Bob:

Which twosome are you thinking of Abs? JB & MacDonald? Or maybe JB & a rifle-owning relative...?

Me:

None in particular, take a pick!

And again, if we assume Jeremy hired McDonald to commit the murders, he would have to have been unusually daft not to secure an alibi for himself.
Still not buying.

[grahameb]

Sparkfilms just because I think the M character is a fantasist weirdo and that sets a theme for the girls he hangs about with doesn't mean I am not interested what his old defence team have to say

Are they allowed to talk about it and if they are they should be making a fuss about the PII issue

Very well said Abbs

If Jeremy's old defence team didn't have confidence in Jeremy in being innocent then this could explain why they didn't enthusiastically cross examine some of the prosecution witnesses?

[Sparkfilms]

Yeah Jackie, it was indeed third hand as it happens.

I'm meeting a member of Jeremy's original defence team on Sunday evening to discuss aspects of the case. Anything to report will clearly be second hand, but I'm not sure I'll waste my time.

I would be very interested to hear how any of his original team feel , knowing what they do now !!

I spoke to one of the guys tonight. He said it was two young police officers who attended the scene that told Jones in no uncertain terms that it looked like a mass murder. Jones was dismissive towards them.

One of the officers went over the head of Jones and made an allegation against him.

This occurred before any member of the family confronted Jones.

So it seems fair to say that it was members of Essex Police who first alerted their superiors against the suicide theory.

[grahameb]

Yeah Jackie, it was indeed third hand as it happens.

I'm meeting a member of Jeremy's original defence team on Sunday evening to discuss aspects of the case. Anything to report will clearly be second hand, but I'm not sure I'll waste my time.

I would be very interested to hear how any of his original team feel , knowing what they do now !!

I spoke to one of the guys tonight. He said it was two young police officers who attended the scene that told Jones in no uncertain terms that it looked like a mass murder. Jones was dismissive towards them.

One of the officers went over the head of Jones and made an allegation against him.

This occurred before any member of the family confronted Jones.

So it seems fair to say that it was members of Essex Police who first alerted their superiors against the suicide theory.

So how did Ann Eaton get to know about it? She had her suspicions long before this was out in the open. Unless the police informed her about it?

[chochokeira]

If you wish to make allegations that you have privileged information that Jeremy hired a hitman to kill his family - and that's what your post did - then you must be scrupulously careful to detail your sources, who they are, their nature and how they claim to have come by the information they allege they have.
...
 
He does not need wild and unattributed remarks from questionable sources making unsupported allegations. I suggest that this is what your source has done.

That's fair comment Choch, and I agree about unsubstantiated "evidence" - I have been saying that for months with regards to the content of the Shaw manuscript being used in that regard, and most people now seem to agree with me (although many are still happy to throw Shaw into discussion at the drop of a hat).

But do you, and others, apply the same logic to Mike's long-standing claim that there exists a photo of Sheila on the bed? To my knowledge, there has never been any evidence of this other than one man's claim, but I have not seen it subjected to much debate.

Just saying... 

Hi Bob,

I hope I point out the issues with Shaw's manuscript if I refer to it, though I much prefer Wilkes' book, as you see from the quotes below:

I would welcome any book recommendations about the case that give a balanced view.

I personally would recommend the following:

Blood Relations by Roger Wilkes  ISBN 0-14-024200-7

Wilkes' book, though a bit out of date (in common with all of the books about this case), is very well researched. Wilkes read all of the available statements and case material and spent many hours interviewing Jeremy Bamber, his extended family and other witnesses. I believe Wilkes' book gives a balanced account.

I recommend Wilkes though he does not conclude that Jeremy is innocent, his view is that it's too close to call, because I believe his is the best researched and most objective account.

Regarding Mike stating that he saw a photo of Sheila on the bed. I personally don't doubt that Mike saw this because he has produced so much evidence in support of most of his other claims that I find it hard to doubt him. Also, anyone who does doubt Mike on any issue is free to challenge him on this, so if you feel an issue has not been properly debated, why not raise it yourself, Bob?

Given that this is a pro- Bamber forum, I think Mike is remarkably open in the way he runs the site and invites challenges from all sides of the debate, pro and anti, don't you?

[jon]

Yeah Jackie, it was indeed third hand as it happens.

I'm meeting a member of Jeremy's original defence team on Sunday evening to discuss aspects of the case. Anything to report will clearly be second hand, but I'm not sure I'll waste my time.

I would be very interested to hear how any of his original team feel , knowing what they do now !!

I spoke to one of the guys tonight. He said it was two young police officers who attended the scene that told Jones in no uncertain terms that it looked like a mass murder. Jones was dismissive towards them.

One of the officers went over the head of Jones and made an allegation against him.

This occurred before any member of the family confronted Jones.

So it seems fair to say that it was members of Essex Police who first alerted their superiors against the suicide theory.

Shaw claim's Rivilin { who worked for nothing after the trial to help JB } and JB original solicitor believed him to be innocent , i would like to hear what either of them had to say !!

[Alias]

It shouldn´t have been the Essex Police Department who investigated this case. They come across as such amateurs!
Why wasn´t Scotland Yard (isn´t that your equivalent of FBI?) put on this case? It was (is) severe enough.

[chochokeira]

Yeah Jackie, it was indeed third hand as it happens.

I'm meeting a member of Jeremy's original defence team on Sunday evening to discuss aspects of the case. Anything to report will clearly be second hand, but I'm not sure I'll waste my time.

I would be very interested to hear how any of his original team feel , knowing what they do now !!

I spoke to one of the guys tonight. He said it was two young police officers who attended the scene that told Jones in no uncertain terms that it looked like a mass murder. Jones was dismissive towards them.

One of the officers went over the head of Jones and made an allegation against him.

This occurred before any member of the family confronted Jones.

So it seems fair to say that it was members of Essex Police who first alerted their superiors against the suicide theory.

Shaw claim's Rivilin { who worked for nothing after the trial to help JB } and JB original solicitor believed him to be innocent , i would like to hear what either of them had to say !!

I believe the fact that Rivlin works for Jeremy without charge says it all about what his views are regarding Jeremy's innocence or guilt, don't you?

[jon]

Yeah Jackie, it was indeed third hand as it happens.

I'm meeting a member of Jeremy's original defence team on Sunday evening to discuss aspects of the case. Anything to report will clearly be second hand, but I'm not sure I'll waste my time.

I would be very interested to hear how any of his original team feel , knowing what they do now !!

I spoke to one of the guys tonight. He said it was two young police officers who attended the scene that told Jones in no uncertain terms that it looked like a mass murder. Jones was dismissive towards them.

One of the officers went over the head of Jones and made an allegation against him.

This occurred before any member of the family confronted Jones.

So it seems fair to say that it was members of Essex Police who first alerted their superiors against the suicide theory.

Shaw claim's Rivilin { who worked for nothing after the trial to help JB } and JB original solicitor believed him to be innocent , i would like to hear what either of them had to say !!

I believe the fact that Rivlin works for Jeremy without charge says it all about what his views are regarding Jeremy's innocence or guilt, don't you?

Definitely Choc !! He would have ran a million mile's if he believed him guilty , imagine what he think's after 20 year's of the log's being withheld , he will remember all the detail's JB told him at the time !!