An acid test for forum members

[HMEssex]

I made a claim yesterday that an ancestor of mine was found dead in a ditch in Tolleshunt Major some six years after he'd died there. So his death was registered some six years after he died. I don't blame others for being sceptical about my claim, it's such a bizare thing to happen, so I'm attaching a copy of his death certificate - with the surname blanked out to protect my elderly auntie's sensibilities about this death in the family.

This is what I call evidence.

That's interesting Keira and not sure why anyone would have been sceptical of your claim.  It seems nothing changes - just last month an elderly lady went missing in Dengie and unfortunately her body was found in a ditch.  Treachorous places these ditches, whatever the era.

[chochokeira]

Hey Choc - I'm just putting stuff into the mix that has been bought to my attention.

I don't know the truth, and I doubt you do either.

And Jackie....come on, I don't expect that kind of trash from you.

Some people on here need to stretch their horizons a little....actually, they need stretching quite a bit!

GIRLS BULLY BOYS XFM

The problem is, Sparks, a man who appears to many people to be Innocent has been been imprisoned for 26 years because of people just putting groundless claims into the mix for reasons of their own.

If you wish to make allegations that you have privileged information that Jeremy hired a hitman to kill his family - and that's what your post did - then you must be scrupulously careful to detail your sources, who they are, their nature and how they claim to have come by the information they allege they have.
 
Because a man's freedom is on the line here. Jeremy has never had a fair trial and he surely deserves the right not to have unsupported wild claims prejudicing his right to a fair Appeal?
 
He does not need wild and unattributed remarks from questionable sources making unsupported allegations. I suggest that this is what your source has done.
 
You say you want widened horizons, Sparks, well, let's widen them.
 
Is your source one of the drug addicted prostitutes you refer to as having interviewed on the link below?

If that's the case you should be up front with this information so that members can judge the potential reliability of your source for themselves.
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/suffolk/hi/people_and_places/arts_and_culture/newsid_9346000/9346058.stm

[bob]

150 words is too few for me to outline my own theory.  I would not have made a good journalist - lawyers are always long winded!  Here is my view:

Sheila experienced a psychotic episode triggered by the drastic reduction of her Halperol dose coupled with the suggestion by Nevill and June that the twins should be fostered.  At around 3.00 am Nevill was woken by sounds of movement. He went downstairs and found Sheila in an agitated state holding the Anschutz rifle.  Nevill tried to calm her down but she ran upstairs.  Nevill telephoned Jeremy and asked him to come to WHF.  Nevill believed the situation could be contained as had happened with similar episodes when Sheila had lost control. Whilst on the phone to Jeremy Nevill was alarmed by a sound upstairs - possibly a shot was fired.  He dropped the phone and ran upstairs into his bedroom.  He saw that June had been shot in bed by Sheila.  Several shots had been fired. Sheila turned the gun on Nevill and shot him 3 or 4 times, causing him extreme pain and incapacitating him.  Nevill was then not in any condition to restrain Sheila physically.  He fled back downstairs, possibly hoping to activate the panic alarm or to call the police.  He reached the kitchen but overcome by his injuries he slumpted onto a chair.   Sheila shot Nevill again, emptying the magazine.  She then struck Nevill around the head with the butt of the rifle.  She then loaded 3 or 4 rounds of ammunition into the rifle and fired further shots at close range into Nevill's head, killing him.  She loaded the rifle again with 3 or 4 rounds and went upstairs.  She found that June had managed to get out of bed and had reached the door of the bedroom.  She fired further shots which killed June.  She went downstairs again and loaded further rounds into the rifle. She went back upstairs into the twins bedroom and found them still asleep.  She shot them both in the head, using 7 shots.  Sheila then had a shower, putting the clothes she had been wearing into soak downstairs.  She put on a clean nightdress.  She wandered about the house and in due course saw the police from an upstairs window.  She leaned the rifle against that window.  Shortly before the raid team forced an entry Sheila went back downstairs with the rifle, possibly in order to reload.  She lay down on the kitchen floor and fired a shot into her neck.  The shot rendered her unconscious. When the raid team entered they saw the bodies Nevill and Sheila, who both appeared to be dead.  They took steps to search the rest of the house leaving no police officer in the kitchen.  Sheila regained consciousness.  She got up, picked up the rifle and went upstairs.  She went into her parents' bedroom, lay down and shot herself again, this time fatally.  Hearing the shot police then rushed into the bedroom and found Sheila.  They removed the rifle from her body and checked for signs of life, changing the position of the body.  Realising that they had messed up the raid they panicked.  They repositioned the body and the rifle.  They agreed that they would not mention originally seeing Sheila in the kitchen.

Much of the above is founded firmly upon available evidence.  Some detail is obviously speculation but in my view is consistent with the available evidence.  I accept that there are other tenable explanations but overall I belief this one is the most likely.

So to summarize... you are saying that she shot June, then shot Neville, then chased him downstairs and battered him, then reloaded and shot him again, then went back upstairs and shot June again as she had been moving around upstairs, and only then went to shoot the twins who had miraculously slept through this gun-toting masacre?!

[andrea]

yes thats the bit i questioned, in my mind she shot the twins first because there is no sign that they were aware of what was going on, one little boy was still sucking his thumb. Im sure had they been shot last they wouldnt have been found in their beds.

[bob]

If you wish to make allegations that you have privileged information that Jeremy hired a hitman to kill his family - and that's what your post did - then you must be scrupulously careful to detail your sources, who they are, their nature and how they claim to have come by the information they allege they have.
...
 
He does not need wild and unattributed remarks from questionable sources making unsupported allegations. I suggest that this is what your source has done.

That's fair comment Choch, and I agree about unsubstantiated "evidence" - I have been saying that for months with regards to the content of the Shaw manuscript being used in that regard, and most people now seem to agree with me (although many are still happy to throw Shaw into discussion at the drop of a hat).

But do you, and others, apply the same logic to Mike's long-standing claim that there exists a photo of Sheila on the bed? To my knowledge, there has never been any evidence of this other than one man's claim, but I have not seen it subjected to much debate.

Just saying... 

[bob]

Please don't tell me she is a hooker?

This isn't very nice Jackie 
They are human beings too you know.

[Jackiepreece]

Thanks Chocho
That's exactly what I meant with posts like Sparkfilms just posted just like Hartley and just like Vidvic I think the Matthew theory is the most ridiculous it a shame he didn't do 3 months on remand for messing with the investigation and Bob when did I ever quote David Shaw and if I did I would have said I read somewhere something but I have no idea if it's true
We are trying to gets to the facts and the truth here and lately Sparkfilms sounds like he is working for the police using them in a poll let's do another poll using all the people have been miscarriages of justice.

Bob Mike said he saw Sheila on the bed what reason would he have to lie about that I don't get it?

[Roch]

For Jackie...

I'm not saying it my friend is. It's the circle he is in. He did work on the farm though in the early 80's and mentioned how Neville would actually go and collect him for work when his vehicle was off the road.

My own findings would probably equate to about 25 to 1 against.

This includes journalists from Colchester Gazette, Essex Chronicle, Daily Express, Guardian, East Anglian Daily Times, Daily Star ( sorry, it's not quite a newspaper ) and then we have the turn around at the Daily Mail that Woofinden brought about a few months ago. Trouble is, when Woof changed colours, quite a few of them followed suit.

25 to 1 against are my findings - I'm sure others will be able to improve on this.

This is exactly why I said that Sarah Hanover's response to Bob Woffinden's article, should itself have been a press article.  The failure to reply to the Woffinden article via the press, was an own goal by the defence.  Jeremy Bamber's blog is excellent... but it's no substitute for a solid pro Bamber article in a National Daily.

[Jackiepreece]

Bob who said hookers were not nice?

I know one girl very well that is a hooker and she is nice and she is funny but she would sell her body for £50 and she is a prolific liar and she would certainly get looked after by the police for getting information and she is not out of work and has 4 children to feed she only works 2 or 3 days a week and earns between 6 to 900 and she thinks it's an easy way to get her Chanel clothes

[bob]

...Hearing the shot police then rushed into the bedroom and found Sheila.  They removed the rifle from her body and checked for signs of life, changing the position of the body.  Realising that they had messed up the raid they panicked.  They repositioned the body and the rifle.  They agreed that they would not mention originally seeing Sheila in the kitchen.

Neil - if this were true I don't see as it provides a compelling reason for the entire raid team to fall in behind a subsequent plot to frame JB. The actions of the raid team as described in your account are not negligent enough to warrant creating such a massive conspiracy to cover their tracks and for so many people to stay silent for so long.

If they shot her themselves as Mike seems to think, then maybe that could support such a conspiracy, but simply failing to check signs of life whilst securing the house under such circumstances doesn't cut it for me as a reason for every one of them supporting the framing of JB.

[andrea]

between 6-900 a week!! wow bet she can hardly walk 

[HMEssex]

yes thats the bit i questioned, in my mind she shot the twins first because there is no sign that they were aware of what was going on, one little boy was still sucking his thumb. Im sure had they been shot last they wouldnt have been found in their beds.

I think that too.

Maybe it's wishful thinking in that we hope the twins were shot first and therefore were unaware of anything.  Children do, however, sleep through anything and even if they were shot last hopefully they were still unaware.
 

[bob]

Bob when did I ever quote David Shaw and if I did I would have said I read somewhere something but I have no idea if it's true

I never said you did. I didn't mention you at all - I was answering Choch's post 

Bob Mike said he saw Sheila on the bed what reason would he have to lie about that I don't get it?

I didn't say he lied (notwithstanding that he obviously does have a reason to lie, given he has an agenda to get JB out of prison). How do you know that what he saw was genuinely a picture of Sheila on the bed? You are happy to claim that what was said to Sparks wasn't reliable, so it's equally valid for me to say that what was shown to Mike was inaccurate.

[andrea]

or if they were aware Hm, maybe they were too scared too move or say anything.

but with one twin still having his thumb in his mouth i think its unlikely.

[bob]

or if they were aware Hm, maybe they were too scared too move or say anything.

but with one twin still having his thumb in his mouth i think its unlikely.

I see no way those kids slept through the masacre as described.
Now if a silencer was involved... but then that becomes a bit more inconvenient