Author Topic: An acid test for forum members  (Read 60409 times)

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Sparkfilms

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #90 on: August 30, 2011, 04:08:PM »
I think most of us agree it was an unfair trial.

What bothered me about this case, more than anything, was how on earth those two shots went into Shelia, under what circumstances, from what angle, and from whom.

I know some members don't like me to mention McDonald - but he is the only person who ever explained this in detail. Fabrication or not. If he was the fantasist he was known to be then he was thinking outside of the box on this occasion.

Perhaps this was a form of personal escapism - it certainly never ended up in the domain of Essex Police at the time, or for all anyone knows, since.

Online ngb1066

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #91 on: August 30, 2011, 04:13:PM »
150 words is too few for me to outline my own theory.  I would not have made a good journalist - lawyers are always long winded!  Here is my view:

Sheila experienced a psychotic episode triggered by the drastic reduction of her Halperol dose coupled with the suggestion by Nevill and June that the twins should be fostered.  At around 3.00 am Nevill was woken by sounds of movement. He went downstairs and found Sheila in an agitated state holding the Anschutz rifle.  Nevill tried to calm her down but she ran upstairs.  Nevill telephoned Jeremy and asked him to come to WHF.  Nevill believed the situation could be contained as had happened with similar episodes when Sheila had lost control. Whilst on the phone to Jeremy Nevill was alarmed by a sound upstairs - possibly a shot was fired.  He dropped the phone and ran upstairs into his bedroom.  He saw that June had been shot in bed by Sheila.  Several shots had been fired. Sheila turned the gun on Nevill and shot him 3 or 4 times, causing him extreme pain and incapacitating him.  Nevill was then not in any condition to restrain Sheila physically.  He fled back downstairs, possibly hoping to activate the panic alarm or to call the police.  He reached the kitchen but overcome by his injuries he slumpted onto a chair.   Sheila shot Nevill again, emptying the magazine.  She then struck Nevill around the head with the butt of the rifle.  She then loaded 3 or 4 rounds of ammunition into the rifle and fired further shots at close range into Nevill's head, killing him.  She loaded the rifle again with 3 or 4 rounds and went upstairs.  She found that June had managed to get out of bed and had reached the door of the bedroom.  She fired further shots which killed June.  She went downstairs again and loaded further rounds into the rifle. She went back upstairs into the twins bedroom and found them still asleep.  She shot them both in the head, using 7 shots.  Sheila then had a shower, putting the clothes she had been wearing into soak downstairs.  She put on a clean nightdress.  She wandered about the house and in due course saw the police from an upstairs window.  She leaned the rifle against that window.  Shortly before the raid team forced an entry Sheila went back downstairs with the rifle, possibly in order to reload.  She lay down on the kitchen floor and fired a shot into her neck.  The shot rendered her unconscious. When the raid team entered they saw the bodies Nevill and Sheila, who both appeared to be dead.  They took steps to search the rest of the house leaving no police officer in the kitchen.  Sheila regained consciousness.  She got up, picked up the rifle and went upstairs.  She went into her parents' bedroom, lay down and shot herself again, this time fatally.  Hearing the shot police then rushed into the bedroom and found Sheila.  They removed the rifle from her body and checked for signs of life, changing the position of the body.  Realising that they had messed up the raid they panicked.  They repositioned the body and the rifle.  They agreed that they would not mention originally seeing Sheila in the kitchen.

Much of the above is founded firmly upon available evidence.  Some detail is obviously speculation but in my view is consistent with the available evidence.  I accept that there are other tenable explanations but overall I belief this one is the most likely.

             

Newbury1

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #92 on: August 30, 2011, 04:18:PM »
I think most of us agree it was an unfair trial.

What bothered me about this case, more than anything, was how on earth those two shots went into Shelia, under what circumstances, from what angle, and from whom.

I know some members don't like me to mention McDonald - but he is the only person who ever explained this in detail. Fabrication or not. If he was the fantasist he was known to be then he was thinking outside of the box on this occasion.

Perhaps this was a form of personal escapism - it certainly never ended up in the domain of Essex Police at the time, or for all anyone knows, since.

Could you (or someone) please let us have McDonald's detailed explanation of the shots to SC? I don't think this is on the forum  ???, but if it is could it be stuck up here?

chochokeira

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #93 on: August 30, 2011, 04:26:PM »
Once upon a time I thought a major miscarriage of justice had happened here, but the more and more you look at the fine details of this case there is little doubt Jeremy Bamber slaughtered his family nd tried to pin it on his sister

just over 150 words, but this is what I think happened

Knowing his mad sister is staying at WHF that night with the kids, Jeremy gained access through the bathroom window using the hacksaw blade, retrieved the gun from the kitchen and sound moderator, removed the phone from its cradle and sneaked upstairs using the rear staircase.
After firing a quick bullet into each of his nephews skulls,

The bullets were fired at the twins in an 'arc' as though they'd been fired in rapid succession. Looks as though you'll run out of bullets before you think you will, steve_trousers.

he sprinted across to Nevill & Junes room, (June is a light sleeper) to find them both awake and Nevill already heading for the door (after he realised the phone was off the hook) he fires one into Nevill, injuring him, then turns to June, shooting her while still in bed.

Major problem, you have the killler firing too few shots fired for the number of bullet cases found in the bedroom and too few shots are fired into Nevill.

Smifty rightly points out that the Bullet cases may have been moved upstairs. You, however, cannot rely on this, steve_trousers, as from your point of view there can be no rearrangement of evidence by the police because your scenario is based on everything being just as it was presented to the court, with no cover up ops by the police.

JB turns to Nevill again, there is a scuffle and Nevill manages to get past Jeremy and makes a dash for downstairs,

You missed the shot on the stairs and you don't explain the blood splashed here.

Smiffy says that this blood may have been staged, but you cannot rely on this either because you believe there was no tampering with evidence. So your scenario must explain this blood on the stairway wall.
in hot pursuit Jeremy catches up with him in the kitchen, and needing to reload batters his dad into unconsciousness with the rifle, then reloads and finsihes Neville off.

Jeremy returns upstairs to find Sheila nursing June, Sheila is paralyzed with fear as Jeremy carefully fires an angled shot into her neck,

While lying on the floor to get the suicide angle? Meanwhile, Sheila kicks his teeth out. Sheila was renowned for her strops, how do you claim he persuaded her to lie still at the suicide angle and stop her going for him in her time honoured fashion?

then a priceless look of horror spreads across his usually smug face

This is a personal vendetta for you, isn't it?

as he realises a second shot is needed to finish Sheila off,

Pargeter stated that Jeremy was a crack shot. So, if Jeremy had shot Sheila, he would not have needed a second attempt. The two shots to Sheila's neck are highly indicative that she was shot by a relative amateur: herself.

then he fires more bullets into the kids and June & sets about re-arranging the scene to make it appear Sheila did it. Then he exits via the kitchen window,

leaving bloodstains everywhere and taking home with him masses of forensic evidence that the police sniffer dog failed to find on Jeremy when it was brought to him to sniff him out just a few hours later. Sorry, this scenario doesn't work at all, it leaves far too many unanswered questions.

slamming it behind him so it locks from the inside.


Thanks to the people who run this excellent site for helping me get to the bottom of this case, all the information you need is right here.

Shame you paid us and the info so little attention then.

Sparkfilms

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #94 on: August 30, 2011, 04:49:PM »
I think most of us agree it was an unfair trial.

What bothered me about this case, more than anything, was how on earth those two shots went into Shelia, under what circumstances, from what angle, and from whom.

I know some members don't like me to mention McDonald - but he is the only person who ever explained this in detail. Fabrication or not. If he was the fantasist he was known to be then he was thinking outside of the box on this occasion.



Perhaps this was a form of personal escapism - it certainly never ended up in the domain of Essex Police at the time, or for all anyone knows, since.

Could you (or someone) please let us have McDonald's detailed explanation of the shots to SC? I don't think this is on the forum  ???, but if it is could it be stuck up here?

McDonalds words are not recorded anywhere in written word to my knowledge.

As this is coming from last year I will do my best -

Me. 'So how did he ( McDonald ) account for the shots into Shelia then?'

My source. 'He got her to lay down on the bedroom floor and held the rifle to her throat, she moved her head when the first shot went in and he had to shoot her again'.

Sorry if this offends or upsets anyone, I have no idea if this is true but my source has been giving me information for many years and the vast majority of what she has told me has been accurate enough for me to use as reference in my work. That is not to say her version is definitive in the respect of WHF.

I was confident enough in her word to cast her in a number of filmed interviews on Sky News re. Suffolk Serial Murders.

She also gave me confidential information of a police operation a few months ago that was spot on in terms of names, locations, timings and details. I knew about the raid which involved 60 officers before it occurred - at least a few days in fact. It turned out to be a complete fiasco.

chochokeira

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #95 on: August 30, 2011, 05:24:PM »
I think most of us agree it was an unfair trial.

What bothered me about this case, more than anything, was how on earth those two shots went into Shelia, under what circumstances, from what angle, and from whom.

I know some members don't like me to mention McDonald - but he is the only person who ever explained this in detail. Fabrication or not. If he was the fantasist he was known to be then he was thinking outside of the box on this occasion.

Perhaps this was a form of personal escapism - it certainly never ended up in the domain of Essex Police at the time, or for all anyone knows, since.


What you've said about McDonald, Sparks, as far as I recall, is that you were told by the wife of a former flat sharer of his that he killed the family and was 'marked up' in the process.

No one has objected to you mentioning McDonald here, it's nonsense to suggest that we have. Your account has, however, inevitably been subjected to a certain amount of critical examination: did you really expect members to accept your account uncritically?

You state that McDonald is the only person to have explained what happened in detail, yet you have provided no real details of how he is alleged to have killed Sheila. Are you now suggesting that you have more details that you have not posted here?

To be honest with you, my view is that what you've heard are the third hand Chinese whispers of what may have been the entirely fantasised account of an acknowledged and self confessed liar and fantasist: a man who claimed he was a mercenary in Libya before confessing that he was only in truth a plumber.

chochokeira

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #96 on: August 30, 2011, 05:34:PM »
I think most of us agree it was an unfair trial.

What bothered me about this case, more than anything, was how on earth those two shots went into Shelia, under what circumstances, from what angle, and from whom.

I know some members don't like me to mention McDonald - but he is the only person who ever explained this in detail. Fabrication or not. If he was the fantasist he was known to be then he was thinking outside of the box on this occasion.



Perhaps this was a form of personal escapism - it certainly never ended up in the domain of Essex Police at the time, or for all anyone knows, since.

Could you (or someone) please let us have McDonald's detailed explanation of the shots to SC? I don't think this is on the forum  ???, but if it is could it be stuck up here?

McDonalds words are not recorded anywhere in written word to my knowledge.

As this is coming from last year I will do my best -

Me. 'So how did he ( McDonald ) account for the shots into Shelia then?'

My source. 'He got her to lay down on the bedroom floor and held the rifle to her throat, she moved her head when the first shot went in and he had to shoot her again'.

Sorry if this offends or upsets anyone, I have no idea if this is true but my source has been giving me information for many years and the vast majority of what she has told me has been accurate enough for me to use as reference in my work. That is not to say her version is definitive in the respect of WHF.

I was confident enough in her word to cast her in a number of filmed interviews on Sky News re. Suffolk Serial Murders.

She also gave me confidential information of a police operation a few months ago that was spot on in terms of names, locations, timings and details. I knew about the raid which involved 60 officers before it occurred - at least a few days in fact. It turned out to be a complete fiasco.

Is this woman a criminal herself, Sparks, is this how she claims to have come by this information?

I'm puzzled about why a woman who was merely the wife of McDonald's flat sharer a few days ago, now appears to be involved in or to have information about serial murders in Suffolk and advance warning of major police operations.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 05:35:PM by chochokeira »

Offline grahameb

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #97 on: August 30, 2011, 05:51:PM »
I think most of us agree it was an unfair trial.

What bothered me about this case, more than anything, was how on earth those two shots went into Shelia, under what circumstances, from what angle, and from whom.

I know some members don't like me to mention McDonald - but he is the only person who ever explained this in detail. Fabrication or not. If he was the fantasist he was known to be then he was thinking outside of the box on this occasion.



Perhaps this was a form of personal escapism - it certainly never ended up in the domain of Essex Police at the time, or for all anyone knows, since.

Could you (or someone) please let us have McDonald's detailed explanation of the shots to SC? I don't think this is on the forum  ???, but if it is could it be stuck up here?

McDonalds words are not recorded anywhere in written word to my knowledge.

As this is coming from last year I will do my best -

Me. 'So how did he ( McDonald ) account for the shots into Shelia then?'

My source. 'He got her to lay down on the bedroom floor and held the rifle to her throat, she moved her head when the first shot went in and he had to shoot her again'.

Sorry if this offends or upsets anyone, I have no idea if this is true but my source has been giving me information for many years and the vast majority of what she has told me has been accurate enough for me to use as reference in my work. That is not to say her version is definitive in the respect of WHF.

I was confident enough in her word to cast her in a number of filmed interviews on Sky News re. Suffolk Serial Murders.

She also gave me confidential information of a police operation a few months ago that was spot on in terms of names, locations, timings and details. I knew about the raid which involved 60 officers before it occurred - at least a few days in fact. It turned out to be a complete fiasco.
I'm just wondering why she wasn't called as a witness at the trial to give evidence under oath.

Jackiepreece

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #98 on: August 30, 2011, 05:52:PM »
Please don't tell me she is a hooker?

Jackiepreece

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #99 on: August 30, 2011, 06:05:PM »
Sparkfilms can you please not post any 50-1 or 25-1 odds JB is guilty if Essex police are in the count

Corruption is still well and truly rife in Essex police STILL

Sparkfilms

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #100 on: August 30, 2011, 06:14:PM »
Hey Choc - I'm just putting stuff into the mix that has been bought to my attention.

I don't know the truth, and I doubt you do either.

And Jackie....come on, I don't expect that kind of trash from you.

Some people on here need to stretch their horizons a little....actually, they need stretching quite a bit!

GIRLS BULLY BOYS XFM

chochokeira

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #101 on: August 30, 2011, 06:27:PM »
150 words is too few for me to outline my own theory.  I would not have made a good journalist - lawyers are always long winded!  Here is my view:

Sheila experienced a psychotic episode triggered by the drastic reduction of her Halperol dose coupled with the suggestion by Nevill and June that the twins should be fostered.  At around 3.00 am Nevill was woken by sounds of movement. He went downstairs and found Sheila in an agitated state holding the Anschutz rifle.  Nevill tried to calm her down but she ran upstairs.  Nevill telephoned Jeremy and asked him to come to WHF.  Nevill believed the situation could be contained as had happened with similar episodes when Sheila had lost control. Whilst on the phone to Jeremy Nevill was alarmed by a sound upstairs - possibly a shot was fired.  He dropped the phone and ran upstairs into his bedroom.  He saw that June had been shot in bed by Sheila.  Several shots had been fired. Sheila turned the gun on Nevill and shot him 3 or 4 times, causing him extreme pain and incapacitating him.  Nevill was then not in any condition to restrain Sheila physically.  He fled back downstairs, possibly hoping to activate the panic alarm or to call the police.  He reached the kitchen but overcome by his injuries he slumpted onto a chair.   Sheila shot Nevill again, emptying the magazine.  She then struck Nevill around the head with the butt of the rifle.  She then loaded 3 or 4 rounds of ammunition into the rifle and fired further shots at close range into Nevill's head, killing him.  She loaded the rifle again with 3 or 4 rounds and went upstairs.  She found that June had managed to get out of bed and had reached the door of the bedroom.  She fired further shots which killed June.  She went downstairs again and loaded further rounds into the rifle. She went back upstairs into the twins bedroom and found them still asleep.  She shot them both in the head, using 7 shots.  Sheila then had a shower, putting the clothes she had been wearing into soak downstairs.  She put on a clean nightdress.  She wandered about the house and in due course saw the police from an upstairs window.  She leaned the rifle against that window.  Shortly before the raid team forced an entry Sheila went back downstairs with the rifle, possibly in order to reload.  She lay down on the kitchen floor and fired a shot into her neck.  The shot rendered her unconscious. When the raid team entered they saw the bodies Nevill and Sheila, who both appeared to be dead.  They took steps to search the rest of the house leaving no police officer in the kitchen.  Sheila regained consciousness.  She got up, picked up the rifle and went upstairs.  She went into her parents' bedroom, lay down and shot herself again, this time fatally.  Hearing the shot police then rushed into the bedroom and found Sheila.  They removed the rifle from her body and checked for signs of life, changing the position of the body.  Realising that they had messed up the raid they panicked.  They repositioned the body and the rifle.  They agreed that they would not mention originally seeing Sheila in the kitchen.

Much of the above is founded firmly upon available evidence.  Some detail is obviously speculation but in my view is consistent with the available evidence.  I accept that there are other tenable explanations but overall I belief this one is the most likely.

           


What a compelling account of how the WHF murders and suicide could have occurred, NGB. I can't identify any flaws in your reasoning. It's such a well reasoned account and so consistent with the evidence, that I shan't bother to post my account, I'll simply second yours. A big round of applause for this.

chochokeira

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #102 on: August 30, 2011, 06:35:PM »
I made a claim yesterday that an ancestor of mine was found dead in a ditch in Tolleshunt Major some six years after he'd died there. So his death was registered some six years after he died. I don't blame others for being sceptical about my claim, it's such a bizare thing to happen, so I'm attaching a copy of his death certificate - with the surname blanked out to protect my elderly auntie's sensibilities about this death in the family.

This is what I call evidence.

Offline smiffy

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #103 on: August 30, 2011, 07:28:PM »
150 words is too few for me to outline my own theory.  I would not have made a good journalist - lawyers are always long winded!  Here is my view:

Sheila experienced a psychotic episode triggered by the drastic reduction of her Halperol dose coupled with the suggestion by Nevill and June that the twins should be fostered.  At around 3.00 am Nevill was woken by sounds of movement. He went downstairs and found Sheila in an agitated state holding the Anschutz rifle.  Nevill tried to calm her down but she ran upstairs.  Nevill telephoned Jeremy and asked him to come to WHF.  Nevill believed the situation could be contained as had happened with similar episodes when Sheila had lost control. Whilst on the phone to Jeremy Nevill was alarmed by a sound upstairs - possibly a shot was fired.  He dropped the phone and ran upstairs into his bedroom.  He saw that June had been shot in bed by Sheila.  Several shots had been fired. Sheila turned the gun on Nevill and shot him 3 or 4 times, causing him extreme pain and incapacitating him.  Nevill was then not in any condition to restrain Sheila physically.  He fled back downstairs, possibly hoping to activate the panic alarm or to call the police.  He reached the kitchen but overcome by his injuries he slumpted onto a chair.   Sheila shot Nevill again, emptying the magazine.  She then struck Nevill around the head with the butt of the rifle.  She then loaded 3 or 4 rounds of ammunition into the rifle and fired further shots at close range into Nevill's head, killing him.  She loaded the rifle again with 3 or 4 rounds and went upstairs.  She found that June had managed to get out of bed and had reached the door of the bedroom.  She fired further shots which killed June.  She went downstairs again and loaded further rounds into the rifle. She went back upstairs into the twins bedroom and found them still asleep.  She shot them both in the head, using 7 shots.  Sheila then had a shower, putting the clothes she had been wearing into soak downstairs.  She put on a clean nightdress.  She wandered about the house and in due course saw the police from an upstairs window.  She leaned the rifle against that window.  Shortly before the raid team forced an entry Sheila went back downstairs with the rifle, possibly in order to reload.  She lay down on the kitchen floor and fired a shot into her neck.  The shot rendered her unconscious. When the raid team entered they saw the bodies Nevill and Sheila, who both appeared to be dead.  They took steps to search the rest of the house leaving no police officer in the kitchen.  Sheila regained consciousness.  She got up, picked up the rifle and went upstairs.  She went into her parents' bedroom, lay down and shot herself again, this time fatally.  Hearing the shot police then rushed into the bedroom and found Sheila.  They removed the rifle from her body and checked for signs of life, changing the position of the body.  Realising that they had messed up the raid they panicked.  They repositioned the body and the rifle.  They agreed that they would not mention originally seeing Sheila in the kitchen.

Much of the above is founded firmly upon available evidence.  Some detail is obviously speculation but in my view is consistent with the available evidence.  I accept that there are other tenable explanations but overall I belief this one is the most likely.

           

Good but the lack of blood trail from Nevill in the bedroom down the stairs and into the kitchen suggests he was not shot in the bedroom at all. Jaw shots would bleed a lot and with 2 arm shots as well...
note the angle of the shoulder and arm shots indicate either he was crouched or similar in a low down position or was say at the bottom of the stairs and the attacker shooting from higher up the stairs.
Such shots would be hard to deliver in the bedroom and no blood trail to tie in with movement from bedroom to kitchen rules out that aspect of the scenario in my view
The 4 bullet cases added to the bedroom appears to have been done to suggest Nevill was shot in the bedroom (surprised) and could not have phoned JB while if they had been left in the kitchen it would have made the view that Nevill was attacked around the time he phone JB easy to accept.

Offline smiffy

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Re: An acid test for forum members
« Reply #104 on: August 30, 2011, 07:34:PM »
I think most of us agree it was an unfair trial.

What bothered me about this case, more than anything, was how on earth those two shots went into Shelia, under what circumstances, from what angle, and from whom.

I know some members don't like me to mention McDonald - but he is the only person who ever explained this in detail. Fabrication or not. If he was the fantasist he was known to be then he was thinking outside of the box on this occasion.



Perhaps this was a form of personal escapism - it certainly never ended up in the domain of Essex Police at the time, or for all anyone knows, since.

Could you (or someone) please let us have McDonald's detailed explanation of the shots to SC? I don't think this is on the forum  ???, but if it is could it be stuck up here?

McDonalds words are not recorded anywhere in written word to my knowledge.

As this is coming from last year I will do my best -

Me. 'So how did he ( McDonald ) account for the shots into Shelia then?'

My source. 'He got her to lay down on the bedroom floor and held the rifle to her throat, she moved her head when the first shot went in and he had to shoot her again'.

Sorry if this offends or upsets anyone, I have no idea if this is true but my source has been giving me information for many years and the vast majority of what she has told me has been accurate enough for me to use as reference in my work. That is not to say her version is definitive in the respect of WHF.

I was confident enough in her word to cast her in a number of filmed interviews on Sky News re. Suffolk Serial Murders.

She also gave me confidential information of a police operation a few months ago that was spot on in terms of names, locations, timings and details. I knew about the raid which involved 60 officers before it occurred - at least a few days in fact. It turned out to be a complete fiasco.

The McDonald account is false. The necklace evidence proves it. The body was moved significantly enough with a tilt to make the pendant on the necklace move after it had become bloodstained. The chain on the necklace rotating round a bit in an anticlockwise direction and blood that had dried on it was dry enough not to smear clean skin it later came into contact with.
There also are indications from the blood staining patters on the nightshirt that show the account given is false.