An acid test for forum members

[chochokeira]

In short, I believe that Sheila in a worsened state of her illness first shot her sons, thus waking up her parents. Maybe Nevill ran downstairs immediately to call for help, then upstairs again to try to prevent more damage. In the meantime, June was shot (maybe just once). Nevill was shot once in the bedroom, then, at gunpoint, led downstairs (no more rounds in the rifle, Nevill couldn't know that).
The fight, possible reloading or another gun was ready downstairs. He was shot. Upstairs, June had tried to get to the twins, but heard the commotion downstairs and turned around, maybe she collapsed at the door then. Sheila upstairs again, shooting June (still alive) again a few times.
Sheila cleaned up (her hair in the crime scene photos looks like freshly washed hair that hasn't been combed.) Maybe she ate. She wore the socks and went upstairs to her mother at some point (perhaps hours later) and shot herself after removing the socks.

Maybe this is totally out there, but this is roughly how I imagine events that night.
I have to apologize to Sheila if I am wrong. It is a horrible thing to say about someone who is possibly a victim of a murder herself. Sorry Sheila, if I am wrong.

What many people don't seem to think of when they mumble about the "impossibility" of Sheila having to reload the rifle magazine several times in order to carry out these murders is that effectively she only needed 4 shots to incapacitate everybody. Then afterwards she would have time to reload the magazine without rushing and then go to each victim and shoot them as many times as it she needed. I wonder why some cannot see this and they over complicate things by saying, "How on earth could she have done this and fight with Ralf a nine foot strapping fit man?" When in actual fact once incapacitated this giant of a man became a pussycat who both received deep nail gouges in his arm as well as inflicting injuries upon his assailant which in fact there are pictures (played down by various people) to prove it.

Excellent point, Grahame +1

[Sparkfilms]

For Mertol,

I have friends in Messing too...are you selling coffee beans to a blues singer per chance?

And back to last night's conversation...

My friend ( former Heybridge Swifts player ) is still in touch with officers from 1985 and he has no knowledge of a major cover up as such. Rest assured, if he were to hear of anything I'll share it on this site.

[mertol22]

Hello Sparks, no its some parts for a synthesiser sold on ebay, a  cover up you can put a ring of steel around, together with the passing of time you have a protected cover up, roswell 1947 , JFK to name a few , these officers are getting on now in time they will not be around .

[chochokeira]

Some very childish postings...come on girls for **** sake grow up.

And in an attempt to get somewhere back on track...

I was out last night with someone who knew the family well, and I asked him about the telephone thing.

It was my assumption that it would have been unlikely for Jeremy to have been capable of inpersonating his father, but my friend gave me a very good account of Neville's voice, which he described thus - Soft, a mixture of educated with a blend of country speak.

My friend thought an impersonation within Jeremy's vocal range.

The Bible was playing an ever growing part in family life.

While I'm here, my friend said the consensus in the area is about 50 to 1 against Jeremy. This includes D'Arcy, Goldhanger, Tollesbury, Salcott and surrounds.

So all the more reason to get to grips with some constructive debate and stop throwing insults around - you can throw them at me,  no problem with that.

There's no concensus against Jeremy among my family, Sparks, and they are related to many of the original D'Arcy, Goldhanger, Tothams, Tollesbury, Tolleshunts, Messing, Tiptree, Wig Wigs, Layers and Inworth families.

All but two of my Blackwater relations have always believed that Jeremy is innocent. The other two aren't interested.

As for the Bible being a growing part of family life, my family and I would dispute that too - and I'm a Christian. By the 1980s there'd been a move away from religion, especially among young people. Although it had been very strong in those parts in times gone by, it no longer had the hold it once had.

I do know too that Jeremy had no interest in religion or the Bible, despite June's attempts to force religion down her children's throats. Jeremy could no more find a relevent section of the Bible than he could fly.

[andrea]

thats my ponit choc, whoever did the shooting s must have known which page of the bible to leave it open at?

[mertol22]

And neither could i chocho , that is open a bible to a meaningfull spot and i was still saying prayers in bed at 22, at 25 no longer believed anymore, something else about Jeremy comes to mind ,try to put here, is it correct that Jeremy had a shower/bath on that night ?

[chochokeira]

thats my ponit choc, whoever did the shooting s must have known which page of the bible to leave it open at?

Exactly, Andrea, Jeremy wouldn't have had a clue. I bet Mathew McDonald wasn't a Bible reader either.

So who did find that psalm? Who among the contenders for the killer knew their Bible well enough to flick through to such a poignant and relevent section, one which so poetically describes the very reasons a sinful killer would commit suicide and a section which effectively makes a plea for mercy for the murder?

That's one reason I believe it's more likely that Sheila killed the family than that Jeremy did.

[mertol22]

was it a leader called do or doe ? leader of US cult Heavens gate whos followers all commited suicide but all preforming a special ritual 1st?

[andrea]

i agree choc, just one point worries me though, and that is sheila being without under wear.

if she had done the ritual cleaning, which is possible, as its common in suicides.Why didnt she put any underwear back on?

i cant see it being down to a weight thing as i dont think she was that vain, one friend said at a party she looked a mess, and the next day she was looking nice, hair, clothes etc

[chochokeira]

And neither could i chocho , that is open a bible to a meaningfull spot and i was still saying prayers in bed at 22, at 25 no longer believed anymore, something else about Jeremy comes to mind ,try to put here, is it correct that Jeremy had a shower/bath on that night ?

I don't know if Jeremy had a bath or shower that night, Mertol. I would have thought it likely that he needed a clean up when he finshed work at the farm, as he had a very dirty, sweaty job, however, I suppose he might have been too exhausted to bother after working for 14 hours or so and could have left it to the morning.  As he was called out to WHF in the early hours, who knows when he had one. Tell you something though, if I'd been woken up in the early hours after such a long shift, I would have had to stand under a hot shower for a couple of minutes to wake myself up sufficiently to be fit to drive and it would not surprise me if he did that.

[chochokeira]

was it a leader called do or doe ? leader of US cult Heavens gate whos followers all commited suicide but all preforming a special ritual 1st?

I believe there have been a few mass suicides by religious cults,Mertol following rituals, I'm unsure who the leader of heaven's Gate was, but you should be able to find it by Googling the name.

[mertol22]

the reason i ask us because i have listened to a radio broadcast on y tube by jeremy its in 4 parts, im sure Jeremy says he had a late bath 11.30 ish, if so the condensation would still be there in the morning, the heat would have gone by then but still there perhaps at 3.30am, on the phone call i can only assume Jeremy put on fresh clothes, why is there no traces of his yesterdays fibre anywhere in the house that night to the anti bamber brigade?

[andrea]

in the days following the shootings, the police when visiting whf, took the opportunity to have a sneaky look around jb's cottage while he was having a shower to see if they could find any incriminating evidence, they also looked for clothes and found nothing.

[mertol22]

did this start for Sheila earlier perhaps?, a few days earlier on the drive up with Colin and the boys saying nothing staying almost silent all the trip?

[andrea]

sheilas mental condition worsened after a visit to whf, she probably wasnt looking forward to visiting at all. The twins also didnt want to go.