Author Topic: Mindset of Jeremy Bamber, at time he was informed, that all his family was dead  (Read 38005 times)

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Offline Roch

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So the goalposts have moved yet again. We now apparently have Jeremy thinking it was nothing to do with Sheila and that the police killed his family (for no apparent reason).

This is nonsense. Jeremy has consistently claimed that Sheila killed the family and then killed herself.

Kaldin I cant get your angle on this.  His initial reaction was to suggest the TFU had killed his family. Wouldn't he go along with suggesting Sheil had killed them, in a scenario where he's actually trying to frame Sheila? Why lash out at the TFU?

Yes, I agree but now Mike has introduced another red herring - ie, that Jeremy never claimed it was Sheila who had the gun.

Ok, I'm glad you can see that.  I'll let Mike explain your particular point.

Yes, sorry - I do get your point, and I've thought the same thing myself. It would be better if these red herrings were not introduced.

Well, if it's not a bluff from Bamber (i.e. he's panicking that he's been a bit too obvious in laying the groundwork for it to point to Sheila, so he throws in a daft comment about the TFU), then to me, it's a clear indication that he has only just discovered everyone is dead.  And that means, he didn't do it.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 10:23:PM by Rochford Shields »

Offline mike tesko

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I have not introduced any red herrings...

JB complained to COLP that PC West changed the meaning and wording of his call that he made to him, by telling COLP that he did not say to PC West that his dad told him that "Sheila had got the gun"...

JB told COLP that his father said "She as got the gun", or "He has got the gun"...

It makes a big difference to the way the trial was set up and the proceedings within that trial because of the way that PC West altered the wording of JB's message...

I wasn't there, and I had nothing at all to do with the murders, but I can see the point that JB was making to COLP in 1991...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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So the goalposts have moved yet again. We now apparently have Jeremy thinking it was nothing to do with Sheila and that the police killed his family (for no apparent reason).

This is nonsense. Jeremy has consistently claimed that Sheila killed the family and then killed herself.
-----------------

Why is it nonsense, and no-one has moved the goal[posts - JB told PC West that his father called him and said "She has got the gun" or "He has got the gun", and later at the scene, when the police broke the news to JB that all his family was dead inside the farmhouse, he accused the police of shooting them. Are you saying that this is not what happened and that I am making it all up? You'll be saying next that its not evidence, its just a theory, or whatever...

PC West altered JB's comments, and JB did complain upon being told his family was dead inside whf, that he thought the police had shot them...

What more can I say...



"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline paulg

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He accused the police of shooting his family? What, all of them?

Offline Roch

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He accused the police of shooting his family? What, all of them?

TFU

Offline Kaldin

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So the goalposts have moved yet again. We now apparently have Jeremy thinking it was nothing to do with Sheila and that the police killed his family (for no apparent reason).

This is nonsense. Jeremy has consistently claimed that Sheila killed the family and then killed herself.

Kaldin I cant get your angle on this.  His initial reaction was to suggest the TFU had killed his family. Wouldn't he go along with suggesting Sheil had killed them, in a scenario where he's actually trying to frame Sheila? Why lash out at the TFU?

Yes, I agree but now Mike has introduced another red herring - ie, that Jeremy never claimed it was Sheila who had the gun.

Ok, I'm glad you can see that.  I'll let Mike explain your particular point.

Yes, sorry - I do get your point, and I've thought the same thing myself. It would be better if these red herrings were not introduced.

Well, if it's not a bluff from Bamber (i.e. he's panicking that he's been a bit too obvious in laying the groundwork for it to point to Sheila, so he throws in a daft comment about the TFU), then to me, it's a clear indication that he has only just discovered everyone is dead.  And that means, he didn't do it.

Yes. I wonder if his barrister made anything of it at the trial.

Offline Kaldin

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I have not introduced any red herrings...

JB complained to COLP that PC West changed the meaning and wording of his call that he made to him, by telling COLP that he did not say to PC West that his dad told him that "Sheila had got the gun"...

JB told COLP that his father said "She as got the gun", or "He has got the gun"...

It makes a big difference to the way the trial was set up and the proceedings within that trial because of the way that PC West altered the wording of JB's message...

I wasn't there, and I had nothing at all to do with the murders, but I can see the point that JB was making to COLP in 1991...

Well I can't. It seems totally irrelevant to me considering that Jeremy has always said it was Sheila who had the gun.

Offline Kaldin

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So the goalposts have moved yet again. We now apparently have Jeremy thinking it was nothing to do with Sheila and that the police killed his family (for no apparent reason).

This is nonsense. Jeremy has consistently claimed that Sheila killed the family and then killed herself.
-----------------

Why is it nonsense, and no-one has moved the goal[posts - JB told PC West that his father called him and said "She has got the gun" or "He has got the gun", and later at the scene, when the police broke the news to JB that all his family was dead inside the farmhouse, he accused the police of shooting them. Are you saying that this is not what happened and that I am making it all up? You'll be saying next that its not evidence, its just a theory, or whatever...

PC West altered JB's comments, and JB did complain upon being told his family was dead inside whf, that he thought the police had shot them...

What more can I say...

So why did Jeremy tell the police at the house about Sheila's illness then? I have never seen Jeremy claim that he didn't say Sheila had the gun, so you might be making it up - or perhaps it's just your own theory.

Offline Kaldin

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He accused the police of shooting his family? What, all of them?

He made a comment to PC Saxby I think. He don't make an official complaint that the police shot his family.

Offline paulg

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He accused the police of shooting his family? What, all of them?

TFU

Sorry, i'm aware that it was the TFU accused, but is he saying they are accused of shooting all the family?

Some sort of target practise? Kill a couple of kids while they sleep, bludgeon and kill a farmer and his wife, then shoot the daughter and make it look like she did it?

Blimey, this would be some story if true.

Offline mike tesko

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So the goalposts have moved yet again. We now apparently have Jeremy thinking it was nothing to do with Sheila and that the police killed his family (for no apparent reason).

This is nonsense. Jeremy has consistently claimed that Sheila killed the family and then killed herself.
-----------------

Why is it nonsense, and no-one has moved the goal[posts - JB told PC West that his father called him and said "She has got the gun" or "He has got the gun", and later at the scene, when the police broke the news to JB that all his family was dead inside the farmhouse, he accused the police of shooting them. Are you saying that this is not what happened and that I am making it all up? You'll be saying next that its not evidence, its just a theory, or whatever...

PC West altered JB's comments, and JB did complain upon being told his family was dead inside whf, that he thought the police had shot them...

What more can I say...

So why did Jeremy tell the police at the house about Sheila's illness then? I have never seen Jeremy claim that he didn't say Sheila had the gun, so you might be making it up - or perhaps it's just your own theory.
----------------

Why would I make something up like that?

The police asked JB lots of things when they met up at the scene, but they only included parts that were required to bolster up the prosecutions case when they made witness statements saying JB told them about Sheila's illness - he was only answering questions which the police at the scene were putting to him about the occupants inside the farmhouse...

Are you trying to suggest that JB just started talking about Sheila's illness without any prompting at all from the police at the scene?

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Roch

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He accused the police of shooting his family? What, all of them?

TFU

Sorry, i'm aware that it was the TFU accused, but is he saying they are accused of shooting all the family?

Some sort of target practise? Kill a couple of kids while they sleep, bludgeon and kill a farmer and his wife, then shoot the daughter and make it look like she did it?

Blimey, this would be some story if true.

Paulg if you look at the document attached, you will see that it was his initial reaction to being informed that the occupants of the farmhouse were dead. 

chelmsey

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I thought that the words actually spoken were "please come quickly,your sister is going crazy,she has got the gun" .........how many sisters has JB got?

Offline Kaldin

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So the goalposts have moved yet again. We now apparently have Jeremy thinking it was nothing to do with Sheila and that the police killed his family (for no apparent reason).

This is nonsense. Jeremy has consistently claimed that Sheila killed the family and then killed herself.
-----------------

Why is it nonsense, and no-one has moved the goal[posts - JB told PC West that his father called him and said "She has got the gun" or "He has got the gun", and later at the scene, when the police broke the news to JB that all his family was dead inside the farmhouse, he accused the police of shooting them. Are you saying that this is not what happened and that I am making it all up? You'll be saying next that its not evidence, its just a theory, or whatever...

PC West altered JB's comments, and JB did complain upon being told his family was dead inside whf, that he thought the police had shot them...

What more can I say...

So why did Jeremy tell the police at the house about Sheila's illness then? I have never seen Jeremy claim that he didn't say Sheila had the gun, so you might be making it up - or perhaps it's just your own theory.
----------------

Why would I make something up like that?

The police asked JB lots of things when they met up at the scene, but they only included parts that were required to bolster up the prosecutions case when they made witness statements saying JB told them about Sheila's illness - he was only answering questions which the police at the scene were putting to him about the occupants inside the farmhouse...

Are you trying to suggest that JB just started talking about Sheila's illness without any prompting at all from the police at the scene?

Yes - before he was there actually. He mentioned her illness when he called the police.

chochokeira

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How can his initial reaction be a red herring?  It is what it is, or rather, what it was... his initial reaction.

Because even if he thought the police had shot them, he clearly thought that it was Sheila who initially had the gun.

"Stages of Grief"

"1. SHOCK & DENIAL-
You will probably react to learning of the loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the loss at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks."

I recall sitting on the floor next to the dead body of a close member of my family, drinking a cup of tea as though nothing had happened as I waited for the coroner's assistant to arrive. I remember wondering why I apparently felt nothing, no sadness, no grief, no emotion whatsoever. When the coroner's assistant arrived, I was calm and organised...or so I thought.

Then, as he was about to leave, I asked the CA, "Are you sure she's dead, only she's still breathing."

The CA looked at me with concern and asked if I would be ok to wait alone for the undertaker to arrive. I told him I was fine.

"No you're not", he said, "you're in shock." I said that was silly, I was fine.

I continued to feel fine with no feelings of grief or mourning for week or so. I remember feeling proud of myself for being so calm and strong, yet I also now I felt seriously guilty that I wasn't at all upset and was coping so well. I couldn't understand why I couldn't cry.

Shock, sends us to a strange place, one where time stands still or even reverses, as our brains struggle to protect us from the initial pain of unbearable grief. In that strange place, our brains convince us that the trauma we've witnessed hasn't really happened at all. Shock makes us feel and appear to be astonishingly rational in the most irrational of situations. Shock also turns emotions upside down. Within hours of my beloved father's sudden and very premature death, my mother and I sat eating a large meal in the kitchen. We laughed and joked as though nothing had happened. We were like that for a couple of days...until we were suddenly overwhelmed by grief.

Does that ring any bells regarding the behaviour of Jeremy Bamber following the deaths of his family? He was in shock, plain and simple, Kaldin, and that's not a rational place to be.


« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 11:36:PM by chochokeira »