Mindset of Jeremy Bamber, at time he was informed, that all his family was dead

[Stephanie]

He knew his sister and nephews were staying over.  West doesn't recall Jeremy mentioning them but West didn't prep for his testimony so maybe he was just wrong about that aspect and forgot.

What I meant was "His Mum, Dad and Sheila?" I imagine if he didn't mention the twins it's because it would have gone without saying as they would have been with their Mum.

How did he know who was in the house at that specific time? One of them could have gone for a walk and as he wasn't meant to know what was going on in the house, if things were kicking off for example,  someone could have left the house in order to get help?

[Steve_uk]

What I meant was "His Mum, Dad and Sheila?" I imagine if he didn't mention the twins it's because it would have gone without saying as they would have been with their Mum.

How did he know who was in the house at that specific time? One of them could have gone for a walk and as he wasn't meant to know what was going on in the house, if things were kicking off for example,  someone could have left the house in order to get help?

I think he studied the family routine from the Sunday night,and given Sheila's precarious state of health she was made the scapegoat for (as Jeremy saw it) putting them all out of their misery,and enabling Colin to start afresh unburdened with two dependents.

[scipio_usmc]

What I meant was "His Mum, Dad and Sheila?" I imagine if he didn't mention the twins it's because it would have gone without saying as they would have been with their Mum.

How did he know who was in the house at that specific time? One of them could have gone for a walk and as he wasn't meant to know what was going on in the house, if things were kicking off for example,  someone could have left the house in order to get help?

They wanted to know who was staying at the house essentially.  In the meantime it was 3am, the logical assumption is that all would be in bed or at least inside the house.  So even if he had not killed them he still had a basis to know who was there. 

[Adam]

If Jeremy didn't call Witham police station, as he testified he did not, then what was he doing between 3.10am - 3.36am ?

He certainly was not phoning Julie as he said he phoned her after the police. Although that would mean the call to her being at 3.47am at the earliest. Julie and her flatmates said his call was between 3.00am - 3.30am.

Perhaps he was brushing his teeth.

[Adam]

What I meant was "His Mum, Dad and Sheila?" I imagine if he didn't mention the twins it's because it would have gone without saying as they would have been with their Mum.

How did he know who was in the house at that specific time? One of them could have gone for a walk and as he wasn't meant to know what was going on in the house, if things were kicking off for example,  someone could have left the house in order to get help?

How did he know ?  Well he had asked Colin a few days earlier when they were staying.

He had also met Sheila and the twins earlier in the day on WHF. Then went to WHF for a late supper, just hours before the massacre.  Sheila and the twins were there.

It is unlikely anyone would go for a walk at 2.00am. No one would have gone for help before Jeremy arrived,  as he was the killer.

He may have checked each room before opening fire in the main bedroom. To make sure everyone was in their beds. If there were people missing, he could have left. It was worth him visiting WHF.

[maggie]

How did he know ?  Well he had asked Colin a few days earlier when they were staying.

He had also met Sheila and the twins earlier in the day on WHF. Then went to WHF for a late supper, just hours before the massacre.  Sheila and the twins were there.

It is unlikely anyone would go for a walk at 2.00am. No one would have gone for help before Jeremy arrived,  as he was the killer.

He may have checked each room before opening fire in the main bedroom. To make sure everyone was in their beds. If there were people missing, he could have left. It was worth him visiting WHF.

Adam, you have always suggested JB carried out his murders in the dark so how could he have checked who was in bed and asleep?  You need to remember WHF was in quite an isolated area, no street lights to shine into bedrooms. It was an August night but there wasn't much moonlight that night either. If all the lights were off as you maintain it would have been pitch black in the house and with respect to the victims, more like a comedy act with the perpetrator tripping over and bumping into walls etc. WHF was not particularly tidy or minimal. No way were these murders carried out in the dark.
It is also true as many have argued just because everyone should have been in bed and asleep, there was no guarantee everybody would have been. To climb through a window at 2 am into a dark house is a hell of a risk and taking a lot for granted. There were two dogs, one outside and one inside, either could have set up an alarm bybbarking. Whatever happened that night I don't believe anyone climbed through a window at 2 am to carry it out. It must have happened another way imo.

[Stephanie]

Good point Maggie!

[Adam]

Adam, you have always suggested JB carried out his murders in the dark so how could he have checked who was in bed and asleep?  You need to remember WHF was in quite an isolated area, no street lights to shine into bedrooms. It was an August night but there wasn't much moonlight that night either. If all the lights were off as you maintain it would have been pitch black in the house and with respect to the victims, more like a comedy act with the perpetrator tripping over and bumping into walls etc. WHF was not particularly tidy or minimal. No way were these murders carried out in the dark.
It is also true as many have argued just because everyone should have been in bed and asleep, there was no guarantee everybody would have been. To climb through a window at 2 am into a dark house is a hell of a risk and taking a lot for granted. There were two dogs, one outside and one inside, either could have set up an alarm bybbarking. Whatever happened that night I don't believe anyone climbed through a window at 2 am to carry it out. It must have happened another way imo.

There have already been threads on the dogs. And the windows.

The window had been loosened with the found hacksaw beforehand. Or Jeremy had left it open at the last supper. Ready for his return a few hours later.

There is no reason Crispy would prevent Jeremy's massacre attempt. Even the OS has not suggested this.

Jeremy would know his way around WHF. Whether it was dark or not. Maybe the hallway light was left on. My parents used to leave it on for my sister when she was around 6 years old. She was scared of total darkness. That would be more than enough light.

[Adam]

Why would people hear him climb through the downstairs bathroom window ?

Everyone was asleep, upstairs in a big house. Probably with their bedroom doors shut. The window was loose or already open and the bathroom door may have also been shut.

Now if Jeremy had used a sledgehammer to bang down the front door....

[susan]

There have already been threads on the dogs. And the windows.

The window had been loosened with the found hacksaw beforehand. Or Jeremy had left it open at the last supper. Ready for his return a few hours later.

There is no reason Crispy would prevent Jeremy's massacre attempt. Even the OS has not suggested this.

Jeremy would know his way around WHF. Whether it was dark or not. Maybe the hallway light was left on. My parents used to leave it on for my sister when she was around 6 years old. She was scared of total darkness. That would be more than enough light.

Hi Guys

Sheila may have been awake and let Jeremy in not knowing what was going to happen

[maggie]

There have already been threads on the dogs. And the windows.

The window had been loosened with the found hacksaw beforehand. Or Jeremy had left it open at the last supper. Ready for his return a few hours later.

There is no reason Crispy would prevent Jeremy's massacre attempt. Even the OS has not suggested this.

Jeremy would know his way around WHF. Whether it was dark or not. Maybe the hallway light was left on. My parents used to leave it on for my sister when she was around 6 years old. She was scared of total darkness. That would be more than enough light.

I know we have spoken about this recently and a few years ago and no doubt over and over again, when you were just a twinkle in someone's eye. There's no rule which says we can only mention the Windows once on Adams thread.

[maggie]

Why would people hear him climb through the downstairs bathroom window ?

Everyone was asleep, upstairs in a big house. Probably with their bedroom doors shut. The window was loose or already open and the bathroom door may have also been shut.

Now if Jeremy had used a sledgehammer to bang down the front door....

Assumptions, Adam. Just as anyone climbing through a window would have had to make assumption, he may screeched up the risk and thought it was worth it  I'm not convinced and by the way I believe the hacksaw was a red herring no proof at all it was used, why would he and then throw it on the ground where not one policeman saw it til Eureka !!!! A sharp eyed relative found it in September???

[Patti]

Why would people hear him climb through the downstairs bathroom window ?

Everyone was asleep, upstairs in a big house. Probably with their bedroom doors shut. The window was loose or already open and the bathroom door may have also been shut.

Now if Jeremy had used a sledgehammer to bang down the front door....

Hi Adam

I have had dogs all my life and at the slightest noise in the dead of the night the dogs would have been alerted to that noise. Dogs have very sensitive ears. 

If a window latch was being filed, by an hacksaw blade it would have generated some sort of noise.

I feel positive that the dog outside would have been on his guard and would have barked first having heard footsteps around the outside of the farm house.

One has to remember that the windows had just been painted and were stiff to open, again this could have generated more noise.  The window evidence is clear that the outside and inside of the bathroom window was clean and that the window was locked from the inside.  After two intensive forensic examination of that window they found nothing to support that it had been used.

Once inside the house it would be very difficult not to have alerted Crispy.......

The other thing is that the main bedroom window was open, so if the black lab barked I feel sure Nevill and June would have heard it....but, if it was usual for the Lab to bark then I can imagine they would sleep through it and people do when a cock crows....

If it was Jeremy he could have easily gone upstairs during that evening and had a look where the children were sleeping and looked where Sheila things were.  He was fully aware of the layout of the house. Note that all lights were on, so I don't think any of the murders were done in the dark.

The main bedroom light was on, yet the officers that had arrived first reported that there was no lights on at the front of the house....A raid team officer is quite clear in his description that the main bedroom light was on.  One has to ask who put this light on for all the other reports only say that lights were on on the white side. 

[susan]

Hello Maggie

I agree the hacksaw played no part in this case at all.  I do tend to think that maybe Caroline was right Jeremy was in the house and did not have the need to enter through a window making his exit would have been easy using a window just my thoughts as I am not really sure how he got in or out

[maggie]

Hello Maggie

I agree the hacksaw played no part in this case at all.  I do tend to think that maybe Caroline was right Jeremy was in the house and did not have the need to enter through a window making his exit would have been easy using a window just my thoughts as I am not really sure how he got in or out

Hi suze, yes I agree that is a possibility and makes more sense than the window stuff.  Have always wondered about this but he had to take his car home so quite how it worked I'm not sure. Maybe someone else took his car home?