PC Collins looked in through wrong window to see Ralph's body

[mike tesko]

Lets take the matter further - why weren't these items ( towel, cushion covers, and the pair of cotton trousers, which were used to control the spread of blood further afield on the kitchen floor) seized and made exhibits in the case?

[H]

Why would the pathologist state that there were no injuries upon the face or head of Ralph Bamber that were consistent with his face/head falling against the rim of the coal bucket, if Ralph's face/head had fallen against the rim of the metal coal bucket?

The only other alternative...

The killer placed Ralph's face/head inside the coal bucket with a view to preventing the spread of blood elsewhere on the Kitchen floor - now why would any would be killer be remotely interested in preventing the spread of blood elsewhere on the main kitchen floor? Why would any would be killer be interested in placing a towel, cushion covers from a number of wooden chairs, and a pair of cotton trousers on the floor around the base of the coal bucket?

I need to hear you views about why any would be killer would place such items on the main kitchen floor around the coal bucket, with the specific intention of controlling the spread of blood on the kitchen floor?

Well it's difficult to comment on things where no evidence exists, so as I said before I don't know why or how he ended up in that position.

I could speculate, but I would be no more accurate than what you are being by suggesting that the police stage managed his body.

If there was blood on the floor and walls directly behind the door then I would say you had something to speculate on, but there isn't, or at least there isn't any that has been recorded.

[H]

Lets take the matter further - why weren't these items ( towel, cushion covers, and the pair of cotton trousers, which were used to control the spread of blood further afield on the kitchen floor) seized and made exhibits in the case?

What references do you have which indicates that they were used to control blood flow, is it in witness statements, or is just what you are suggesting is the case?

[mike tesko]

Why would the pathologist state that there were no injuries upon the face or head of Ralph Bamber that were consistent with his face/head falling against the rim of the coal bucket, if Ralph's face/head had fallen against the rim of the metal coal bucket?

The only other alternative...

The killer placed Ralph's face/head inside the coal bucket with a view to preventing the spread of blood elsewhere on the Kitchen floor - now why would any would be killer be remotely interested in preventing the spread of blood elsewhere on the main kitchen floor? Why would any would be killer be interested in placing a towel, cushion covers from a number of wooden chairs, and a pair of cotton trousers on the floor around the base of the coal bucket?

I need to hear you views about why any would be killer would place such items on the main kitchen floor around the coal bucket, with the specific intention of controlling the spread of blood on the kitchen floor?

Well it's difficult to comment on things where no evidence exists, so as I said before I don't know why or how he ended up in that position.

I could speculate, but I would be no more accurate than what you are being by suggesting that the police stage managed his body.

If there was blood on the floor and walls directly behind the door then I would say you had something to speculate on, but there isn't, or at least there isn't any that has been recorded.

--------

I think its unfair that Essex police will not release the original scenes of crime report, so that we can see where all the blood was found, and everything else of significance that they do not want Jeremy or those representing him to know about or see, so your claim that there was no additional blood found behind the door, or anywhere else, cannot be substantiated - Essex police do not say that no blood was/ not found behind that door, or anywhere else that has not been identified by any crime scene photographs now in the public domain?

Where are the original handwritten scenes of crime notes?

[mike tesko]

Lets take the matter further - why weren't these items ( towel, cushion covers, and the pair of cotton trousers, which were used to control the spread of blood further afield on the kitchen floor) seized and made exhibits in the case?

What references do you have which indicates that they were used to control blood flow, is it in witness statements, or is just what you are suggesting is the case?

...

So, it would appear that you are trying to imply that those items, the towel, the cushion covers from the wooden chairs, and the pair of cotton trousers, which were all so conveniently positioned around the base of the coal bucket on the floor of the kitchen were all there before Ralph's head either fell into that coal bucket, or before it was placed there?

What a tremendous coincidence...

I think we had better have a closer look at those/these items, to try and work out whether or not, they should have been seized and made exhibits in the case?

[mike tesko]

Lets study the scene of the Kitchen?

(1) I see three cushion covers from the wooden chairs on the floor around the coal bucket
(2) I see a towel on the floor in the immediate vicinity of the coal bucket
(3) I see a pair of cotton trousers in the immediate vicinity of the coal bucket

The positioning of the (1) three cushion covers around the base of the coal bucket seems to me to be of particular interest, especially the one closest to the body of Ralph Bamber - how could it have got there?

[mike tesko]

Cushion cover closest to the body of Ralph Bamber, must have fallen from the overturned wooden chair at a time when the police toppled over his body from its original position behind the internal door, and prior to the police re positioning his body so that his head was resting in the coal bucket?

Other two cushion covers, could not possibly have fallen into the position they ended up in, if they were tipped off the other wooden chairs, or stools, because the chairs are facing in the opposite direction away from the position of the coal bucket and the two stools are too far away from the coal bucket - hence somebody picked these up and moved them into the position they ended up being photographed in?

Lets also not forget that according to some police sources, two stools were knocked over, and re-positioned by members of the raid team as they forced their way into the kitchen - if true, why would those two cushion covers have been on the floor next to the coal bucket, before the police officers knocked over and re-positioned those two wooden stools?

[smiffy]

from that picture I doubt anyones body without rigor motis already well established could end up in the position shown. While alive and for a fair while after death until rigor mortis was established the body would be too floppy so the position could not be retained.

he has been moved /body staged a fair number of hours after death...which points at the police being involved.

[mike tesko]

from that picture I doubt anyones body without rigor motis already well established could end up in the position shown. While alive and for a fair while after death until rigor mortis was established the body would be too floppy so the position could not be retained.

he has been moved /body staged a fair number of hours after death...which points at the police being involved.

----------

I agree...

[mike tesko]

If body of Ralph Bamber had already developed signs of "rigor mortis", by the time is body was placed with his head in the coal bucket, it raises question marks over the integrity of the pathologist, Peter Venezis?

For example...

Why hasn't Venezis stated that Ralph Bambers body was moved by someone, a long time after he died?

Would it be safe to conclude that Venezis must have known Ralph's body had been moved, but that he omitted these factors from his report, because he realized or knew that if he included them, it would point to the stage managing of Ralph's body by the police, in time for PC Bird (soc) to photograph it there in that position??

[mike tesko]

Over 30 different police officers traipsed through whf that (7th August 1985) morning, and yet not one of them appears to have questioned the position of Ralph Bambers body with his head in the coal bucket, or the position of the cushion covers, the towel, or the pair of cotton trousers at the base of the coal bucket, now there has to be a good reason for that?

In my opinion...

[mike tesko]

Has anyone even wondered why the coal bucket itself was not seized, or exhibited as part of the evidence in this case?

[H]

I think its unfair that Essex police will not release the original scenes of crime report, so that we can see where all the blood was found......

Yes, if that is the case then I agree completely.

[mike tesko]

Lets look at the potential exhibits that appear to be missing altogether in this case:-


(1) the coal bucket
(2) cushion cover (1)
(3) cushion cover (2)
(4) cushion cover (3)
(5) towel
(6) pair of cotton trousers

[H]

So, it would appear that you are trying to imply that those items, the towel, the cushion covers from the wooden chairs, and the pair of cotton trousers, which were all so conveniently positioned around the base of the coal bucket on the floor of the kitchen were all there before Ralph's head either fell into that coal bucket, or before it was placed there?

What a tremendous coincidence...

I think we had better have a closer look at those/these items, to try and work out whether or not, they should have been seized and made exhibits in the case?

No Mike that is not what I am implying, I am implying nothing.

You have decided that the police placed the items there and are stating it as fact, now don't get me wrong, I'm open to the possibility, but there is no evidence that that is the case (that I have seen or recall). To state it as fact on your whim doesn't wash with me, if you said they could have been placed there for that reason then I'd take it on board as such.