Channel 5 documentary 8th June 9.00 pm - 10.30 pm

[Zoso]

You can put your spin on this. The fact is that West recorded that the line was engaged at 5.47. From his previous contact with the GPO he must have known that only the operator could confirm whether the line was engaged or simply off the hook as previously notified. So to say the line was engaged he must have meant that the line status had changed when contacting the GPO or as instructed (5.45) they were notifying the change to him. There would be no point in creating a link with the 999 line if the position had not changed.

The 999 line was at HQIR.

No, West simply said what most people would say when they heard that tone - "it was engaged". Had he said it was "off the hook", that would have been cause for concern because without the intervention of the operator, he wouldn't have know. There was no link with a '999' line - that is how it was recorded and why it is in single quotes. It was connected by the operator, linking the open line from the farm to HQIR for them to monitor. There was no call from Sheila and this is NOT my spin, this is a fact, but if you choose to make a fairy story out of it that's for you.

[snow66!]

The Aga point is still valid. However unlike the bible there is no corroborating evidence. Eastwood confirmed that RWC moved the bible and the rifle. This does not rule out NB being moved but the bible movement is stronger. This does however leave the question of what else may have been moved for which there were no witnesses or has not been made public by anyone who knew he had been moved.

Just seems odd they didn't mention the Aga burns at all, Bubo, it would only have taken up a few minutes!

[Zoso]

Even if they were connecting it to to an earlier abandoned call as you would have it, this does not negate what Milbank said he heard inside the house.

Why even include this from a prize winning journalist in the documentary if we take your view. It was supported by at least 4 KC's and other highly knowledgeable legal and technical experts who would not partake in the programme if they disagreed with this critical aspect. They would be tarnishing their reputations. They were not paid to take part. You are a sour puss who only believes in her own thinking. It is you who should be getting real

It wasn't connected from an 'earlier abandoned call'. The operator was able to break into the line and listen - from doing this he/she could determine if a call was in progress OR if it had been simply left off the hook. In this instance, she heard no conversation, just a dog barking and scuffling. From that she determined it was 'off the hook' and she herself monitored the line for a short while - it was later patched to HQIR and that's it. Nothing more to see here!

[Zoso]

Just seems odd they didn't mention the Aga burns at all, Bubo, it would only have taken up a few minutes!

Given that it's a none starter - it's not odd at all.

[Zoso]

I simply said they were interesting points (to me) not that they were capable of anything further.

There was a couple of things for me too but I didn't write them down. I'll have to look again and report back. Nothing major, like you, just somethings that made me thing 'hmmmm'. I didn't take the gun being moved seriously, because Bird's comments were evasive "I think" isn't definitive. The bible being opened and closed was certainly of interest but that wouldn't help the defence 'at all'.

[Adam]

Seems mentally Sheila could write sentances. Even experts have found it hard working out her scribbles.

This matches the breakdown of her not being able to function in the months to minutes prior to Jeremy opening fire.

[Adam]

Believe Jeremy put the bible on Sheila as his narrative was she committed suicide straight after killing everyone else.

Decades later it is now -

Sheila read the bible.

Went downstairs.

Phoned 999 

Didn't say anything.

Stayed alive until the raid team entered.

Went upstairs & avoided the raid team.

Shot herself twice where the bible was.

[Adam]

Surprised Sheila did not take the rifle downstairs with her. Or go upstairs and shoot herself when the raid team started banging the door down.

But she managed to get to the rifle & bible upstairs after the raid team had entered.

[snow66!]

Given that it's a none starter - it's not odd at all.

You mark my words, Zoso, the Aga burn evidence will free JB sooner or later!

[ILB]

Watching it tonight.

[Steve_uk]

I have read Zozo's review of the C5 docu.  Can any other members please provide similar?

One-sided, no question mark after Proof of Innocence title, no probe as to the relationship between Jeremy and his parents, motive ascribed to inheritance without examining the alleged opinion the accused had of the five victims, linked to this is the alleged telephone call by Nevill to son, which gave Jeremy an alibi of sorts, but no discussion of how improbable that was, also no discussion of why Jeremy telephoned Julie three times within the space of eight hours, no mention of the alleged chuckle behind closed doors.

No examination of why Milbank kept the exculpatory evidence secret for decades, no mention of the patching up of the call by the GPO. No mention of the fact that Colin had rights to Nicholas and Daniel which overrode Nevill and June's.

Unsure whether a silencer not pressed against Sheila's neck would make a similar mark to the Anschütz without silencer attached, but there was no blood in the rifle barrel I believe?