ABO grouping of highly-dilute blood by the absorption-elution technique

[David1819]

The evidence was literally a bucket of water (the blood dilution was extreme) yet the technique still yielded a usable group result that corroborated the suspect's confession.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1920924/

"This paper reports a homicidal case in which the absorption-elution technique using nitrocellulose beads as immunoadsorbents was successfully applied to ABO grouping from highly-diluted blood. A 21-year-old man was found dead in bed while staying in a hotel. He had multiple wounds over the entire body. By autopsy the cause of death was decided to be traumatic shock. The victim's blood group was A. A bucket filled with faint-colored water was found at the scene. By means of the absorption-elution technique using nitrocellulose beads the water was grouped as B. Later, a 32-year-old man staying in the hotel together with the victim was suspected and arrested. The suspect's blood group was B. He confessed that he had injured himself in the hands with a knife during the struggle and washed them in the water."

[Adam]

The evidence was literally a bucket of water (the blood dilution was extreme) yet the technique still yielded a usable group result that corroborated the suspect's confession.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1920924/

"This paper reports a homicidal case in which the absorption-elution technique using nitrocellulose beads as immunoadsorbents was successfully applied to ABO grouping from highly-diluted blood. A 21-year-old man was found dead in bed while staying in a hotel. He had multiple wounds over the entire body. By autopsy the cause of death was decided to be traumatic shock. The victim's blood group was A. A bucket filled with faint-colored water was found at the scene. By means of the absorption-elution technique using nitrocellulose beads the water was grouped as B. Later, a 32-year-old man staying in the hotel together with the victim was suspected and arrested. The suspect's blood group was B. He confessed that he had injured himself in the hands with a knife during the struggle and washed them in the water."

What would your grounds be to the CCRC?

Each ground must be supported with new evidence. Believe CC thought she could just say something & that is it.

[David1819]

What would your grounds be to the CCRC?

Each ground must be supported with new evidence. Believe CC thought she could just say something & that is it.

I have already answered this.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10914.msg505027.html#msg505027

On top of that, a statement from Rivlin agreeing he was ineffective would help. I have tried to contact Rivlin but to no avail.

[Adam]

I have already answered this.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10914.msg505027.html#msg505027

On top of that, a statement from Rivlin agreeing he was ineffective would help. I have tried to contact Rivlin but to no avail.

Why do you think Jeremy did not include your forensic evidence breakthrough in his 2021 CCRC submission? He recieved it in 2016.

[David1819]

Why do you think Jeremy did not include your forensic evidence breakthrough in his 2021 CCRC submission? He recieved it in 2016.

Quite simply because it was put together by the CT and rubber stamped by a solicitor.

The fact this solicitor has not fallen out with them over the last 6 years, indicates to me that he is playing a rather passive role.

NGB, MTKC and McKay have all crossed paths with the CT and its all gone south rather quickly. You'd have to ask NGB more details if he is prepared to share more.

[Cambridgecutie]

The evidence was literally a bucket of water (the blood dilution was extreme) yet the technique still yielded a usable group result that corroborated the suspect's confession.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1920924/

"This paper reports a homicidal case in which the absorption-elution technique using nitrocellulose beads as immunoadsorbents was successfully applied to ABO grouping from highly-diluted blood. A 21-year-old man was found dead in bed while staying in a hotel. He had multiple wounds over the entire body. By autopsy the cause of death was decided to be traumatic shock. The victim's blood group was A. A bucket filled with faint-colored water was found at the scene. By means of the absorption-elution technique using nitrocellulose beads the water was grouped as B. Later, a 32-year-old man staying in the hotel together with the victim was suspected and arrested. The suspect's blood group was B. He confessed that he had injured himself in the hands with a knife during the struggle and washed them in the water."

You are either being disingenous or suffer profound learning dissabilities.  The flake of blood underpinning JB's conviction was based on far more than ABO groupings; it was based on gel electrophoresis to identify enzyme and protein groups.  Gel electrophoresis requires good quality and quantity of blood to produce results:

                                    ABO   PGM            EAP         AK       Hp           

Nevill Bamber                 O     PGM1+         EAP BA     AK1     Hp2-1
June Bamber                  A     PGM1+         EAP BA     AK2-1   Hp2-1
Daniel Caffell                  O     PGM2+1+    EAP B       AK1      Hp2
Nicholas Caffell              O     PGM2+1+    EAP B       AK1      Hp2
Sheila Caffell                  A     PGM1+         EAP BA     AK1      Hp2-1

[Cambridgecutie]

You are either being disingenous or suffer profound learning dissabilities.  The flake of blood underpinning JB's conviction was based on far more than ABO groupings; it was based on gel electrophoresis to identify enzyme and protein groups.  Gel electrophoresis requires good quality and quantity of blood to produce results:

                                    ABO   PGM            EAP         AK       Hp           

Nevill Bamber                 O     PGM1+         EAP BA     AK1     Hp2-1
June Bamber                  A     PGM1+         EAP BA     AK2-1   Hp2-1
Daniel Caffell                  O     PGM2+1+    EAP B       AK1      Hp2
Nicholas Caffell              O     PGM2+1+    EAP B       AK1      Hp2
Sheila Caffell                  A     PGM1+         EAP BA     AK1      Hp2-1

From the 2002 CoA:

482. No questions were asked at trial of Mr Hayward to establish what part of the blood he
had tested. The position was, however, known to the defence through their own
expert Dr Lincoln. Dr Lincoln had seen the evidential material upon which the group
testing results were based and agreed with the conclusions. He recorded that evidence
in the course of his report of 19 September 1986. He said that Mr Hayward had
“found a flake of blood trapped under the first or second baffle plate” and that it was
this flake that was tested and produced the groupings A, EAP BA, AK1, Hp2.1 upon
which reliance was placed by the prosecution. Dr Lincoln further recorded:

“Mr Hayward states that he could detect visible staining on the
“upper baffle plates” and that he swabbed these plates so that
the blood was taken onto cotton material which could
subsequently be used in grouping tests. On this material Mr
Hayward successfully determined the ABO and EAP groups
and showed the blood to be groups A, EAP BA.”

https://ceadstorage.blob.core.windows.net/cead-images/Bamber.PDF

[Adam]

Quite simply because it was put together by the CT and rubber stamped by a solicitor.

The fact this solicitor has not fallen out with them over the last 6 years, indicates to me that he is playing a rather passive role.

NGB, MTKC and McKay have all crossed paths with the CT and its all gone south rather quickly. You'd have to ask NGB more details if he is prepared to share more.

I bet you are frustrated that Jeremy could have been released in 2016.

[David1819]

I bet you are frustrated that Jeremy could have been released in 2016.

Its not my remit of responsibility.

[Adam]

Its not my remit of responsibility.

Looks like it is down to CC before the 1st May 2026. 

New evidence that the nightdress & handswabs are 'consistent with Sheila as the perp' will certainly put a new slant on things. 

[BarefootDanC]

Quite simply because it was put together by the CT and rubber stamped by a solicitor.

The fact this solicitor has not fallen out with them over the last 6 years, indicates to me that he is playing a rather passive role.

NGB, MTKC and McKay have all crossed paths with the CT and its all gone south rather quickly. You'd have to ask NGB more details if he is prepared to share more.

I get the impression that the solicitor - Mark Newby - has been taken in by all their theories.

[ngb1066]

I get the impression that the solicitor - Mark Newby - has been taken in by all their theories.

I do not think that is a correct assertion.  There have been some wild assertions by supporters over the years, mixed in with some solid points.  The efforts now ar far more focussed, better resourced and researched and professionally presented.  I do not necessarily agree with every point raised but I do know the current submissions are of a high standard and I believe the CCRC at a high level are likely to be taking them very seriously.

[David1819]

I do not think that is a correct assertion.  There have been some wild assertions by supporters over the years, mixed in with some solid points.  The efforts now ar far more focussed, better resourced and researched and professionally presented.  I do not necessarily agree with every point raised but I do know the current submissions are of a high standard and I believe the CCRC at a high level are likely to be taking them very seriously.

That is good news.

[David1819]

Back from the weekend food shop. Time and date stamped in-case of any doubt.

[David1819]

Since the blood inside the moderator yielded no PGM results I asked Claude if it was the most susceptible to degradation and dilution.


"The Honest Answer: No, PGM Is Not the Most Labile
In the forensic serology literature of that era, the broadly accepted stability ranking was roughly:

ABO          — most stable (antigen-based)
   
AK            — very stable
   
PGM           — moderately stable, generally ROBUST
   
EAP           — less stable than PGM
     
Hp            — least stable (serum protein)

PGM was actually valued by forensic scientists precisely because it was relatively robust in aged or degraded stains. It was one of the workhorses of the FSS panel because it tended to survive conditions that compromised other markers.

If the laboratory tested in the sequence ABO > EAP > AK > Hp > PGM, and the flake was small, the physical sample may simply have been consumed before PGM testing. This isn't degradation at all — it's a sequencing and quantity problem. If true, it means the scientist used up limited material on less discriminating markers before attempting the most discriminating one. That is a significant methodological criticism. The correct approach with a small or precious sample would arguably have been to prioritise PGM above EAP and AK given its superior discriminating power."