Author Topic: US-Israel Attacks Iran  (Read 26170 times)

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Offline David1819

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Re: US-Israel Attacks Iran
« Reply #345 on: April 08, 2026, 04:18:PM »
There is no way Trump will agree to that "10-point proposal" during the next two weeks of negotiations. Its very unlikely the ceasefire lasts that long.

Trump was in a serious predicament leading up to his self imposed deadline. He would be faced with a choice of either committing serious war crimes or looking like a coward on the world stage who does not follow through with his words. Trump being Trump would he opt for latter? He was given an easy way out (for now).

Wars are easy to start but not so easy to finish.

Offline gringo

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Re: US-Israel Attacks Iran
« Reply #346 on: April 08, 2026, 04:20:PM »
   A week ago (fittingly April Fools Day) there was a discussion based on a General Caine statement re B52's flying overland. I insisted then that any claim of US control of Iranian airspace was horseshit. I explained that the US were still using expensive and finite stand off munitions. Had they been flying freely over Iran as was claimed, then a few questions.  Why, with this superiority have the US brokered a ceasefire without achieving a single one of their pre-war aims and allowed Iran to control passage through Hormuz? Why haven't the US with this flying freely over Iran supremacy, been able to destroy the means of Iran to destroy US bases to the point of evacuation? Why have the US still been using long distance bombers and stand off munitions. Surely US jets should have been freely flying and carpet bombing strategic targets with this ability to navigate Iranian airspace freely? Do you believe the US are in a stronger or weaker position than pre-aggression? How about Iran- Stronger/Weaker?
   
     

Offline David1819

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Re: US-Israel Attacks Iran
« Reply #347 on: April 08, 2026, 04:40:PM »
A White House official says that the 10-point peace plan that Iran publicly released on Wednesday differs from the plan that Trump said was a “workable basis on which to negotiate.”

https://iran.liveuamap.com/en/2026/8-april-15-a-white-house-official-says-that-the-10point-peace

The 10 point plan put forward by Iran and agreed as the basis for negotiations by Trump make clear that Iran, "has all the cards", as Trump might say.
   

🤡

Offline gringo

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Re: US-Israel Attacks Iran
« Reply #348 on: April 08, 2026, 06:09:PM »
A White House official says that the 10-point peace plan that Iran publicly released on Wednesday differs from the plan that Trump said was a “workable basis on which to negotiate.”

https://iran.liveuamap.com/en/2026/8-april-15-a-white-house-official-says-that-the-10point-peace

🤡
   A White House official says...  :-[

Offline gringo

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Re: US-Israel Attacks Iran
« Reply #349 on: April 08, 2026, 07:06:PM »
   Well, that lasted. Hormuz closed again due to Israeli violations of ceasefire. Israel will be pounded tonight

Offline David1819

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Offline Cambridgecutie

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Re: US-Israel Attacks Iran
« Reply #351 on: April 08, 2026, 10:01:PM »
I would like to see world leaders resolve once and for all the Israel-Palestine land dispute.  All these other Mid-East issues emanate from this.
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Online snow66!

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Re: US-Israel Attacks Iran
« Reply #352 on: April 08, 2026, 10:24:PM »
I would like to see world leaders resolve once and for all the Israel-Palestine land dispute.  All these other Mid-East issues emanate from this.
Bill Clinton proposed a fair deal over 20years ago regarding land dispute, but the Palestinians rejected it, Cutie! Then Hamas took over and all hell broke loose!

Offline gringo

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Re: US-Israel Attacks Iran
« Reply #353 on: April 08, 2026, 11:28:PM »
Bill Clinton proposed a fair deal over 20years ago regarding land dispute, but the Palestinians rejected it, Cutie! Then Hamas took over and all hell broke loose!
    Something of a biased interpretation there, snow. Also lacking in any detail. Clinton offered a heavily skewed set of proposals for a peace deal which was rejected by Yasser Arafat. Do you know what the proposals were that you call a "fair deal"? I doubt it, so how do you conclude that it was fair? 

https://fair.org/home/the-myth-of-the-generous-offer/

     "The Camp David meeting ended without agreement on July 25, 2000. At this point, according to conventional wisdom, the Palestinian leader’s “response to the Camp David proposals was not a counteroffer but an assault” (Oregonian editorial, 8/15/01). “Arafat figured he could push one more time to get one more batch of concessions. The talks collapsed. Violence erupted again” (E.J. Dionne, Washington Post, 12/4/01). He “used the uprising to obtain through violence…what he couldn’t get at the Camp David bargaining table” (Chicago Sun-Times, 12/21/00).

But the Intifada actually did not start for another two months. In the meantime, there was relative calm in the occupied territories. During this period of quiet, the two sides continued negotiating behind closed doors. Meanwhile, life for the Palestinian population under Israeli occupation went on as usual. On July 28, Prime Minister Barak announced that Israel had no plans to withdraw from the town of Abu Dis, as it had pledged to do in the 1995 Oslo II agreement (Israel Wire, 7/28/00). In August and early September, Israel announced new construction on Jewish-only settlements in Efrat and Har Adar, while the Israeli statistics bureau reported that settlement building had increased 81 percent in the first quarter of 2000. Two Palestinian houses were demolished in East Jerusalem, and Arab residents of Sur Bahir and Suwahara received expropriation notices; their houses lay in the path of a planned Jewish-only highway (Report on Israeli Settlement in the Occupied Territories, 11-12/00).

The Intifada began on September 29, 2000, when Israeli troops opened fire on unarmed Palestinian rock-throwers at the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, killing four and wounding over 200 (State Department human rights report for Israel, 2/01). Demonstrations spread throughout the territories. Barak and Arafat, having both staked their domestic reputations on their ability to win a negotiated peace from the other side, now felt politically threatened by the violence. In January 2001, they resumed formal negotiations at Taba, Egypt."


    Bolded above from the article is what you call, "Then Hamas took over and all hell broke loose". I suspect that you know very little of the negotiations from 2000/01. As demonstrated by your brief, biased and inaccurate summation.

Offline gringo

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Re: US-Israel Attacks Iran
« Reply #354 on: April 08, 2026, 11:53:PM »
"The Taba talks are one of the most significant and least remembered events of the “peace process.” While so far in 2002 (1/1/02-5/31/02), Camp David has been mentioned in conjunction with Israel 35 times on broadcast network news shows, Taba has come up only four times—never on any of the nightly newscasts. In February 2002, Israel’s leading newspaper, Ha’aretz (2/14/02), published for the first time the text of the European Union’s official notes of the Taba talks, which were confirmed in their essential points by negotiators from both sides.

“Anyone who reads the European Union account of the Taba talks,” Ha’aretz noted in its introduction, “will find it hard to believe that only 13 months ago, Israel and the Palestinians were so close to a peace agreement.” At Taba, Israel dropped its demand to control Palestine’s borders and the Jordan Valley. The Palestinians, for the first time, made detailed counterproposals—in other words, counteroffers—showing which changes to the 1967 borders they would be willing to accept. The Israeli map that has emerged from the talks shows a fully contiguous West Bank, though with a very narrow middle and a strange gerrymandered western border to accommodate annexed settlements.

In the end, however, all this proved too much for Israel’s Labor prime minister. On January 28, Barak unilaterally broke off the negotiations. “The pressure of Israeli public opinion against the talks could not be resisted,” Ben-Ami said (New York Times, 7/26/01)."


In February 2001, Ariel Sharon was elected prime minister of Israel. Sharon has made his position on the negotiations crystal clear. “You know, it’s not by accident that the settlements are located where they are,” he said in an interview a few months after his election (Ha’aretz, 4/12/01)."

    It's a bit more complex than your rather trite summary, snow.

     

Online snow66!

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Re: US-Israel Attacks Iran
« Reply #355 on: April 09, 2026, 12:09:AM »
"The Taba talks are one of the most significant and least remembered events of the “peace process.” While so far in 2002 (1/1/02-5/31/02), Camp David has been mentioned in conjunction with Israel 35 times on broadcast network news shows, Taba has come up only four times—never on any of the nightly newscasts. In February 2002, Israel’s leading newspaper, Ha’aretz (2/14/02), published for the first time the text of the European Union’s official notes of the Taba talks, which were confirmed in their essential points by negotiators from both sides.

“Anyone who reads the European Union account of the Taba talks,” Ha’aretz noted in its introduction, “will find it hard to believe that only 13 months ago, Israel and the Palestinians were so close to a peace agreement.” At Taba, Israel dropped its demand to control Palestine’s borders and the Jordan Valley. The Palestinians, for the first time, made detailed counterproposals—in other words, counteroffers—showing which changes to the 1967 borders they would be willing to accept. The Israeli map that has emerged from the talks shows a fully contiguous West Bank, though with a very narrow middle and a strange gerrymandered western border to accommodate annexed settlements.

In the end, however, all this proved too much for Israel’s Labor prime minister. On January 28, Barak unilaterally broke off the negotiations. “The pressure of Israeli public opinion against the talks could not be resisted,” Ben-Ami said (New York Times, 7/26/01)."


In February 2001, Ariel Sharon was elected prime minister of Israel. Sharon has made his position on the negotiations crystal clear. “You know, it’s not by accident that the settlements are located where they are,” he said in an interview a few months after his election (Ha’aretz, 4/12/01)."

    It's a bit more complex than your rather trite summary, snow.

     
OK, thanks, gringo! Cutie can read all that too!
Would a fair assessment of the Palestine/Israel situation be 'complicated' without either side being fully to blame? Or do you think it is Israel who wants a one sided deal that the Palestinians could never accept?
Or do both sides hate each others guts and don't actually want a peace deal of any kind?
Seems a lot may be to do with religion and the control of Temples and such in Jerusalem?

Offline gringo

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Re: US-Israel Attacks Iran
« Reply #356 on: April 09, 2026, 01:04:AM »
OK, thanks, gringo! Cutie can read all that too!
Would a fair assessment of the Palestine/Israel situation be 'complicated' without either side being fully to blame? Or do you think it is Israel who wants a one sided deal that the Palestinians could never accept?
Or do both sides hate each others guts and don't actually want a peace deal of any kind?
Seems a lot may be to do with religion and the control of Temples and such in Jerusalem?
    Surely you can see it is already one sided, snow. Palestinians have been denied statehood and land envisioned as part of a Palestinian state has been systematically occupied by armed European, so called settlers, for decades. Western countries who created Israel and fund it to the tune of billions annually cannot be considered neutral brokers.
     The Greater Israel project, which includes chunks of all neighbouring Arab countries, isn't even denied anymore. This, more than anything, demonstrates clearly that the Zionists have at no time negotiated in good faith.

Offline gringo

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Re: US-Israel Attacks Iran
« Reply #357 on: April 09, 2026, 01:17:AM »
OK, thanks, gringo! Cutie can read all that too!
Would a fair assessment of the Palestine/Israel situation be 'complicated' without either side being fully to blame? Or do you think it is Israel who wants a one sided deal that the Palestinians could never accept?
Or do both sides hate each others guts and don't actually want a peace deal of any kind?
Seems a lot may be to do with religion and the control of Temples and such in Jerusalem?

https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1654849

     Full piece worth reading. The Zionist terror gangs formed in Palestine post Balfour (1917) and their terrorist acts are covered in some detail. The notion that Israel appeared as if by magic post WW2 in 1948 because the "holocaust" is fantasy. From the 1920's onwards Zionist terror gangs introduced terrorism to Palestine. An excerpt below itemising Zionist terror;

    "The most infamous terrorist acts committed by these gangs

These gangs carried out numerous terrorist acts against the Palestinian Arab population, especially during the Great Palestinian Revolt, and these included:

--On March 17, 1937, a member of the Irgun terrorist gang, and for the first time, tossed a hand grenade into a café frequented by Palestinians in Jerusalem, causing numerous casualties.

--On July 6, 1938, members of the Irgun gang detonated time bombs in a crowded Haifa market, killing 21 Palestinians and wounding 52.

--In June 1939, the village of Balad al-Shaykh, in Haifa province, was attacked by a unit of the Haganah. Five villagers were abducted then murdered.

--On the morning of November 25, 1940, a huge explosion shook the city of Haifa. The explosion, it was later determined, took place on the SS Patria, a French ship which had docked in the city's harbor. On board were 1800 male and female Jews whom the British authorities wanted to deport to the island of Mauritius, since they did not have the necessary residence permits to enter Palestine. This the Haganah rejected and so decided to blow up the ship to prevent their deportation. As a result, 252 Jews and 12 British policemen were killed and 172 passengers were wounded. Palestinian workers in Haifa harbor managed to save the rest of the passengers. Following that incident, the British authorities decided to allow survivors to reside in Palestine.

As World War II was coming to an end, and in its immediate aftermath, these Zionist gangs intensified their anti-British operations. These included:

--On August 8, 1944, Lehi attempted to assassinate Sir Harold McMichael, the British High Commissioner in Palestine.

--On November 6, 1944, two members of the Lehi gang assassinated Lord Moyne in Cairo. Lord Moyne was then the highest-ranking representative of the British government in the Middle East. He was targeted for advocating the creation of an Arab federation in the Middle East. The two assassins, Eliyahu Bet-Zuri and Eliyahu Hakim, were arrested, tried by a military court, and hanged on March 23, 1945.

--On 18 June 1946, hostages were abducted in Tel Aviv to pressure the British authorities, the first time this terrorist strategy was used.

--On 29 June 1946, the British mandate police force carried out a wave of arrests in the offices of the Jewish Agency. The Irgun gang, led by Menahem Begin, decided to retaliate by targeting the British army's HQ in Jerusalem, located in the King David Hotel, dynamiting it on July 22, 1946. As a result, 28 Britons, 17 Jews, 41 Palestinians and 5 others were killed, a total of 91 dead.

--On October 31, 1946, the British Embassy in Rome was bombed.

--On December 5, 1946, and for the first time, a car parked near some buildings in Sarafand was detonated.

--From June 4 to 6, 1947, twenty letter bombs were sent from Italy to British politicians in London.

--On July 29, 1947, members of that same gang kidnapped and killed some British soldiers in the Netanya region.

--But the most important operation carried out by Lehi was the assassination of Swedish Count Folke Bernadotte (1895-1948) who had been Vice-President of the Swedish Red Cross before being appointed by UN Secretary General, the Norwegian Trygve Halvdan Lie, as “mediator” in Palestine in May 1948. On September 17, 1948. Bernadotte actively sought to amend the map that partitioned Palestine in an attempt to reach a compromise between Arabs and Jews. This led the Lehi leadership to decide to assassinate him and four of its members, wearing Israeli army uniforms, blocked his car on September 17, 1948, in the Jerusalem sector controlled by Israel, and shot him along with French Colonel Andre Serot, head of the UN Observers in the city, who accompanied Bernadotte. Both men were killed instantly.  To obscure the identity of the assassins, a movement called the “Patriotic Front” announced its responsibility but this did not succeed as a cover-up for the true assassins. Bernadotte's assassination was widely condemned, and a minute of silence was observed in his memory at the UN General Assembly then in session.

--On April 9, 1948, units from the Irgun and Lehi committed a massacre in the village of Dayr Yasin, with a population of some 700. More than a hundred of them were murdered in cold blood.

At a meeting of Haganah leaders in Tel Aviv in March, 1948, and with Ben-Gurion present, it was decided to draw up a comprehensive plan for ethnic cleansing, known as “Plan Dalet”, according to which numerous massacres were carried out to terrorize the Palestinian civilian population and to drive them out of their homeland. Some massacres were carried out before the creation of the Israeli army, as in the Tantura massacre, a village south of Haifa, on 22 and 23 May, 1948, which resulted in the killing of more than 200 Palestinian men and women. Others were committed after that army was formed, as in the village of al-Dawaymah in the al-Khalil (Hebron) district, on October 29, 1948, where hundreds of Palestinian men and women were killed.

Offline handymanz

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Re: US-Israel Attacks Iran
« Reply #358 on: April 09, 2026, 02:54:AM »
I would like to see world leaders resolve once and for all the Israel-Palestine land dispute.  All these other Mid-East issues emanate from this.

I think this is about 33% of the problem, if solved the west would still covet the resources of the region.
Up until Trump became totally unhinged, the previous 23 years can be put down to the illegal invasion of Iraq.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: US-Israel Attacks Iran
« Reply #359 on: April 09, 2026, 04:50:AM »
I would like to see world leaders resolve once and for all the Israel-Palestine land dispute.  All these other Mid-East issues emanate from this.
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