Author Topic: Colour of burns  (Read 55904 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33781
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #630 on: January 12, 2026, 07:45:PM »
Like this Jane, this is in the reconstruction Aga,


That's the one!

Offline Hardy Boy

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3925
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #631 on: January 12, 2026, 07:50:PM »

That's the one!
Thanks Jane,  did read pre 1970 Aga didn’t always have a temp Gauge Jane?   Especially solid fuel?

Offline snow66!

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5955
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #632 on: January 12, 2026, 08:21:PM »
I’m ready and loaded, Snow. We’re not talking about shoulders here,   we’re talking about the middle of the neck.

If the head is on the floor, the neck drops lower, not higher. That increases the distance between the handle and the centre of the neck, it doesn’t reduce it. So you have to factor the head being on the floor into this.

The lower the head goes, the further away the handle gets.

Look at the photo again and then visualise that handle somehow reaching the middle of the neck — it can’t. As the shoulders slope away, the head drops even more.

Drop the Aga the three inches if you like — it still doesn’t work. And then look at the other two supposed contact points and try to line them up with the spine as well.
Well lets just accept for a minute that the Aga did indeed burn Nevills back and that the police didn't move him sometime after entry, HB!
Lets take a look at both a Sheila and JB scenario based on the claim that it would take a minimum of four hours for the Aga to cause the burns!
OK. first Sheila! Now we know that Sheila and June were on the phone to Pam around Ten O'clock was it.?
And what time did Nevill take in the last trailer of grain or whatever? Was that before ten?
And then Nevill had to walk the dogs did he?
Anyway, would it be fair to say that June and the boys would have been in their beds before 11.00 and that Nevill may have been having a drink before retiring? Did someone say that Nevill showered and changed into his pyjamas down stairs? If not, I will no doubt be corrected.
Anyway, for our Sheila scenario we will presume that by 11.00 o'clock June and the boys were in bed while Nevill and Sheila converged in the kitchen where a confrontation took place and Nevill was knocked out, finally recovering around 3.00 in the morning, hence four hours lying against the Aga!
So we can just about fit four hours or so into a Sheila scenario, ok??

Now, let us look at a JB scenario!
When did JB come off the phone from Julie, was it about 10.15? Again, someone will correct me!
So, about the earliest JB could leave Goldhanger would be roughly 10.30, is that fair? We can always alter the times anyway!
Now it is generaly accepted that JB cycled the sea wall to get to the farm which took around half an hour, so JB would reach the farm by 11.00 o'clock hoping that everyone was in bed by then!
So again, Nevill must have heard JB entering and went down to the kitchen only to be knocked out immediately!
JB kills everyone else and then hangs about in the farm house for over three hours before Nevill comes round again at 3.00 only to be beaten and shot to death, ending up on the chair/scuttle.
JB leaves soon after and gets home to Goldhanger around 3.30 immediately phoning the police!

So, as we can see, the time frame is extremely tight for a JB four hour Aga burn scenario, and besides what half rational reason can be given for JB loitering at WHF for over three hours?
He certainly wasn't waiting for the burns to form, thats for sure!

No, if the Aga burned Nevills back and the police did not move him, then Sheila most likely killed her family in my opinion!


Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44410
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #633 on: January 12, 2026, 08:47:PM »
Snow is now making Sheila & Bamber scenarios.

Based on Nevill lying on an aga door for 4 hours after being knocked out & then being able to function.

Guess the 30 seconds to 2 minute knock out is not long enough.

Agree with Bamber that a heated metal instrument on an aga plate burnt Nevill. Would only take 5 mins.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Hardy Boy

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3925
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #634 on: January 12, 2026, 08:55:PM »
Well lets just accept for a minute that the Aga did indeed burn Nevills back and that the police didn't move him sometime after entry, HB!
Lets take a look at both a Sheila and JB scenario based on the claim that it would take a minimum of four hours for the Aga to cause the burns!
OK. first Sheila! Now we know that Sheila and June were on the phone to Pam around Ten O'clock was it.?
And what time did Nevill take in the last trailer of grain or whatever? Was that before ten?
And then Nevill had to walk the dogs did he?
Anyway, would it be fair to say that June and the boys would have been in their beds before 11.00 and that Nevill may have been having a drink before retiring? Did someone say that Nevill showered and changed into his pyjamas down stairs? If not, I will no doubt be corrected.
Anyway, for our Sheila scenario we will presume that by 11.00 o'clock June and the boys were in bed while Nevill and Sheila converged in the kitchen where a confrontation took place and Nevill was knocked out, finally recovering around 3.00 in the morning, hence four hours lying against the Aga!
So we can just about fit four hours or so into a Sheila scenario, ok??

Now, let us look at a JB scenario!
When did JB come off the phone from Julie, was it about 10.15? Again, someone will correct me!
So, about the earliest JB could leave Goldhanger would be roughly 10.30, is that fair? We can always alter the times anyway!
Now it is generaly accepted that JB cycled the sea wall to get to the farm which took around half an hour, so JB would reach the farm by 11.00 o'clock hoping that everyone was in bed by then!
So again, Nevill must have heard JB entering and went down to the kitchen only to be knocked out immediately!
JB kills everyone else and then hangs about in the farm house for over three hours before Nevill comes round again at 3.00 only to be beaten and shot to death, ending up on the chair/scuttle.
JB leaves soon after and gets home to Goldhanger around 3.30 immediately phoning the police!

So, as we can see, the time frame is extremely tight for a JB four hour Aga burn scenario, and besides what half rational reason can be given for JB loitering at WHF for over three hours?
He certainly wasn't waiting for the burns to form, thats for sure!

No, if the Aga burned Nevills back and the police did not move him, then Sheila most likely killed her family in my opinion!
Nice Sidestep Snow, I’m more than Happy to discuss timeframes with you…however,  Before we can, There’s just one tiny hurdle to cross. Even if the Aga were three inches lower, the problem doesn’t change.

Head on the floor. Drain tap in place, Now show us how the middle of the neck reaches the centre of that handle.


Offline snow66!

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5955
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #635 on: January 12, 2026, 09:08:PM »
Nice Sidestep Snow, I’m more than Happy to discuss timeframes with you…however,  Before we can, There’s just one tiny hurdle to cross. Even if the Aga were three inches lower, the problem doesn’t change.

Head on the floor. Drain tap in place, Now show us how the middle of the neck reaches the centre of that handle.
But without having access to an Aga I cant really answer any of your questions, HB!
I just have to trust that Philip Boyce has got the Aga evidence right and construct scenarios around this!
Hence the four hour Aga scenarios!

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21102
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #636 on: January 12, 2026, 09:14:PM »
Well lets just accept for a minute that the Aga did indeed burn Nevills back and that the police didn't move him sometime after entry, HB!
Lets take a look at both a Sheila and JB scenario based on the claim that it would take a minimum of four hours for the Aga to cause the burns!
OK. first Sheila! Now we know that Sheila and June were on the phone to Pam around Ten O'clock was it.?
And what time did Nevill take in the last trailer of grain or whatever? Was that before ten?
And then Nevill had to walk the dogs did he?
Anyway, would it be fair to say that June and the boys would have been in their beds before 11.00 and that Nevill may have been having a drink before retiring? Did someone say that Nevill showered and changed into his pyjamas down stairs? If not, I will no doubt be corrected.
Anyway, for our Sheila scenario we will presume that by 11.00 o'clock June and the boys were in bed while Nevill and Sheila converged in the kitchen where a confrontation took place and Nevill was knocked out, finally recovering around 3.00 in the morning, hence four hours lying against the Aga!
So we can just about fit four hours or so into a Sheila scenario, ok??

Now, let us look at a JB scenario!
When did JB come off the phone from Julie, was it about 10.15? Again, someone will correct me!
So, about the earliest JB could leave Goldhanger would be roughly 10.30, is that fair? We can always alter the times anyway!
Now it is generaly accepted that JB cycled the sea wall to get to the farm which took around half an hour, so JB would reach the farm by 11.00 o'clock hoping that everyone was in bed by then!
So again, Nevill must have heard JB entering and went down to the kitchen only to be knocked out immediately!
JB kills everyone else and then hangs about in the farm house for over three hours before Nevill comes round again at 3.00 only to be beaten and shot to death, ending up on the chair/scuttle.
JB leaves soon after and gets home to Goldhanger around 3.30 immediately phoning the police!

So, as we can see, the time frame is extremely tight for a JB four hour Aga burn scenario, and besides what half rational reason can be given for JB loitering at WHF for over three hours?
He certainly wasn't waiting for the burns to form, thats for sure!

No, if the Aga burned Nevills back and the police did not move him, then Sheila most likely killed her family in my opinion!
Interesting Snow66! I'm wondering why Jeremy doesn't finish Nevill off immediately though, or give him a quick prod with the rifle to ensure death? As for Sheila, she was exhausted following the activity of recent days and as June told her sister, was on the way to bed.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44410
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #637 on: January 12, 2026, 09:17:PM »
But without having access to an Aga I cant really answer any of your questions, HB!
I just have to trust that Philip Boyce has got the Aga evidence right and construct scenarios around this!
Hence the four hour Aga scenarios!

Did you investigate whether 30 seconds to 2 minutes was long enough?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline snow66!

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5955
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #638 on: January 12, 2026, 09:21:PM »
Interesting Snow66! I'm wondering why Jeremy doesn't finish Nevill off immediately though, or give him a quick prod with the rifle to ensure death? As for Sheila, she was exhausted following the activity of recent days and as June told her sister, was on the way to bed.
Ha ha!  Yes we're all wondering why JB wouldn't kill Nevill immediately, Steve?
But the thing is, he cant in this scenario because Nevill has to burn his back for at least 4hrs before getting up again to be shot to death on the chair/scuttle where the police found him!

Offline snow66!

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5955
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #639 on: January 12, 2026, 09:24:PM »
Did you investigate whether 30 seconds to 2 minutes was long enough?
You know the claim is at least 4hrs, Adam!
Whether or not it can be trimmed down a bit if the incident happened earlier on I do not know!

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21102
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #640 on: January 12, 2026, 09:28:PM »
Ha ha!  Yes we're all wondering why JB wouldn't kill Nevill immediately, Steve?
But the thing is, he cant in this scenario because Nevill has to burn his back for at least 4hrs before getting up again to be shot to death on the chair/scuttle where the police found him!
But Jeremy wouldn't risk anyone being alive after he left. It would have to be a mistake on his part.

Offline Hardy Boy

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3925
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #641 on: January 12, 2026, 09:32:PM »
But without having access to an Aga I cant really answer any of your questions, HB!
I just have to trust that Philip Boyce has got the Aga evidence right and construct scenarios around this!
Hence the four hour Aga scenarios!
To be honest, Snow, I don’t have access to an Aga either,  but I don’t need one to see what’s in the picture.  You’ve given the handle measurement. Now take the centre of the neck and its distance from the floor.

Head on the floor.  Drain tap where it is.  The drain tap acts as a stop. And The first contact fixes the position, and once it does, the neck can’t reach the handle,  both  distance and height wise, and it doesn’t matter whether he then lies there for four hours unconscious or asleep it makes no difference.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44410
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #642 on: January 12, 2026, 09:37:PM »
You know the claim is at least 4hrs, Adam!
Whether or not it can be trimmed down a bit if the incident happened earlier on I do not know!

It's just that Sheila would not be powerful enough to knock Nevill out for 4 hours. Then Nevill would not be able to function when waking.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline snow66!

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5955
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #643 on: January 12, 2026, 09:51:PM »
But Jeremy wouldn't risk anyone being alive after he left. It would have to be a mistake on his part.
But Jeremy doesn't leave anyone alive in my 4hr Aga burn scenario, Steve!
He kills Nevill before leaving, after his back has been burned for 4hrs lying against the Aga!
We're 'tied' to the 4hr minimum to form the burns, Steve!

Offline snow66!

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5955
Re: Colour of burns
« Reply #644 on: January 12, 2026, 09:53:PM »
It's just that Sheila would not be powerful enough to knock Nevill out for 4 hours. Then Nevill would not be able to function when waking.
That is debatable I believe, Adam!