Breakdown of Sheila's drowsiness in days/hours leading to massacre.

[Steve_uk]

Think he worked on WHF for a while but was kicked out by Nevill who got fed up with the cannabis use. ( he found him alternative employment)

..and how different things might have been had Nevill been consistent and terminated his son's employment alongside. Always beholden to June in that regard, whose land he was tilling, his sole outlet for emotional relief being neighbouring land owner John Seward, who noted him in tears as to Jeremy's antics. Upon asking why he didn't just throw him out Nevill replied: "June wouldn't let me."

If only they had had a connection with their son, if they had known what was germinating in his mind: the failure to bond initially with either parent, then the banishment to Gresham's, the employment at Sloppy Joe's, the break-up of his relationship with Suzette under threat of inheritance, then his attempt at escape with the round the world trips and the catering job at Rivenhall End, all leading to a blind alley of despair as he saw no exit from White House Farm but the one he chose, allowing him a few more hedonistic weeks before it all caught up with him, the destruction of five lives and the inevitable incarceration which ensued.

[ILB]

..and how different things might have been had Nevill been consistent and terminated his son's employment alongside. Always beholden to June in that regard, whose land he was tilling, his sole outlet for emotional relief being neighbouring land owner John Seward, who noted him in tears as to Jeremy's antics. Upon asking why he didn't just throw him out Nevill replied: "June wouldn't let me."

If only they had had a connection with their son, if they had known what was germinating in his mind: the failure to bond initially with either parent, then the banishment to Gresham's, the employment at Sloppy Joe's, the break-up of his relationship with Suzette under threat of inheritance, then his attempt at escape with the round the world trips and the catering job at Rivenhall End, all leading to a blind alley of despair as he saw no exit from White House Farm but the one he chose, allowing him a few more hedonistic weeks before it all caught up with him, the destruction of five lives and the inevitable incarceration which ensued.

I don't believe Jeremy was ever a workshy inidividual he just wanted to be the gaffer and do it on his terms.

It's part of his make up.

[Steve_uk]

I don't believe Jeremy was ever a workshy inidividual he just wanted to be the gaffer and do it on his terms.

It's part of his make up.

Point taken, but he didn't have the nous of Nevill, who had worked his way up from the bottom, attended agricultural college and demonstrated the Midas touch in crop selection. I doubt Jeremy could have matched his prowess; he dabbled in various outlets, always looking for the shortcuts and rarely following through.

 It reminds me of the Queen lyrics: I want it all and I want it now.

[ILB]

Point taken, but he didn't have the nous of Nevill, who had worked his way up from the bottom, attended agricultural college and demonstrated the Midas touch in crop selection. I doubt Jeremy could have matched his prowess; he dabbled in various outlets, always looking for the shortcuts and rarely following through.

 It reminds me of the Queen lyrics: I want it all and I want it now.

This is the core problem, Nevill wanted a mini Nevill.

He got a Jeremy.

[ILB]

I personally don't believe his adoption stung him though at the material time in question or throughout his adolsecene. The bastard jibes did at school but that is part and parcel of growing upm we've all been victims of bullying to varying degrees in our school days.

Believe post conviction is when his adoption circumstances began to hurt. He had the time to reflect.

[ILB]

..and how different things might have been had Nevill been consistent and terminated his son's employment alongside. Always beholden to June in that regard, whose land he was tilling, his sole outlet for emotional relief being neighbouring land owner John Seward, who noted him in tears as to Jeremy's antics. Upon asking why he didn't just throw him out Nevill replied: "June wouldn't let me."

If only they had had a connection with their son, if they had known what was germinating in his mind: the failure to bond initially with either parent, then the banishment to Gresham's, the employment at Sloppy Joe's, the break-up of his relationship with Suzette under threat of inheritance, then his attempt at escape with the round the world trips and the catering job at Rivenhall End, all leading to a blind alley of despair as he saw no exit from White House Farm but the one he chose, allowing him a few more hedonistic weeks before it all caught up with him, the destruction of five lives and the inevitable incarceration which ensued.

Believe Shelia took up most of their time and direction to be honest.

[Steve_uk]

I personally don't believe his adoption stung him though at the material time in question or throughout his adolsecene. The bastard jibes did at school but that is part and parcel of growing upm we've all been victims of bullying to varying degrees in our school days.

Believe post conviction is when his adoption circumstances began to hurt. He had the time to reflect.

An incisive post. I agree as long as the money was flowing and not much was expected of him he appeared reasonably content. Some of the remarks pre-massacre were cause for concern, quite apart from the diablerie conveyed to Julie re the murder plan. There was his desire to burgle an Arab's house, as related to Liz Rimington, his shooting of ducks on the farm with a 12 bore, his growing cannabis to feed a drugs habit and provide extra income, as well as the Osea Road burglary, which demonstrated utter contempt for his parents and their way of life.

[Steve_uk]

Believe Shelia took up most of their time and direction to be honest.

They took their eye off the ball. Were they determined to find the right match for their son following the disaster (as they saw it) of an weed-smoking unemployed potter as son-in-law, who used the "f" word and put their daughter in the family way? Only later, when they saw the progeny, did they realize there was another façon de vivre, and tragically for them in trying to make amends in past parenting inadequacies it was Jeremy who couldn't help but compare how he had been treated with how Nicholas and Daniel were being favoritized. This coupled with how Jeremy perceived Nevill and June had treated Suzette set the wheels in motion for his dastardly plan, as he told Julie: "For the way my parents have treated me they have forfeited the right to live."

[ILB]

Point taken, but he didn't have the nous of Nevill, who had worked his way up from the bottom, attended agricultural college and demonstrated the Midas touch in crop selection. I doubt Jeremy could have matched his prowess; he dabbled in various outlets, always looking for the shortcuts and rarely following through.

 It reminds me of the Queen lyrics: I want it all and I want it now.

All jokes aside I believe Jeremy would have made a good career in sales.

[ILB]

They took their eye off the ball. Were they determined to find the right match for their son following the disaster (as they saw it) of an weed-smoking unemployed potter as son-in-law, who used the "f" word and put their daughter in the family way? Only later, when they saw the progeny, did they realize there was another façon de vivre, and tragically for them in trying to make amends in past parenting inadequacies it was Jeremy who couldn't help but compare how he had been treated with how Nicholas and Daniel were being favoritized. This coupled with how Jeremy perceived Nevill and June had treated Suzette set the wheels in motion for his dastardly plan, as he told Julie: "For the way my parents have treated me they have forfeited the right to live."

Speaking as a father of a daughter, she is my angel, she can do no wrong in my eyes, I think the same applied to Nevill and Shelia hence the two had such a close relationship. I freely admit I am much stricter with my son. It is something that most fathers can relate to. Believe NB and JB although having a, good relationship at some point he wasn't able to get away with things as much as Shelia was. Coupled with what was expected of him. As Jane has pointed out in the past the sibling jealousy rivilary aspect. Don't believe Jeremy was ever jealous of Shelia. He just didn't get an easier ride.

Having said that both children were the same, they both relied on the parents even in their 20s, everything Jeremmy and Shelia had came from the bank of June and Nevill.

I think both resented deep down having to rely on their parents although both readily accepted because they couldnt make it alone.

[Adam]

I don't believe he got Sheila to shoot herself. She would have to be hypnotized for that.

However she was drowsy enough to believe he could shoot her in his chosen neck position without any resistance. Meaning he could kill her with one shot.

He did achieve all of this, but she was not going to die instantly. He made the decision to shoot her again. He did not know the first shot would eventually kill her. The multiple shots required on everyone else, he would believe the police would believe Sheila could have shot herself twice.

[ILB]

I don't believe he got Sheila to shoot herself. She would have to be hypnotized for that.

However she was drowsy enough to believe he could shoot her in his chosen neck position without any resistance. Meaning he could kill her with one shot.

He did achieve all of this, but she was not going to die instantly. He made the decision to shoot her again. He did not know the first shot would eventually kill her. The multiple shots required on everyone else, he would believe the police would believe Sheila could have shot herself twice.

A two shot suicide looks dodgy to simply put it. Even though Vanesiz said it wasn't unheard of.

It was this detail that automatically got DS Jones suspcious.

For me, he must have done it impulsively. Time was on his side.

[Adam]

He had chosen the neck/under chin location shot beforehand. Even when the first shot did not kill her instantly, the second shot was next the first.

Believe he woke her and lead her into the bedroom. Or carried her. It was only a few yards.

[ILB]

He had chosen the neck/under chin location shot beforehand. Even when the first shot did not kill her instantly, the second shot was next the first.

Believe he woke her and lead her into the bedroom. Or carried her. It was only a few yards.

He shot the second time in haste.

Probably has spent many nights in a cell reflecting over the fact who knows.

[Adam]

He shot the second time in haste.

Probably has spent many nights in a cell reflecting over the fact who knows.

It was in haste and in the same location. Must have done some research on the most effective place to shoot someone.