Full defence Sheila scenario.

[Steve_uk]

The rifle may not have been left out. Although that was what Bamber was suggesting to the police.

Quite possible Nevill or June put the rifle away. Although after the carnage inside WHF, just as possible Sheila could go into the gun cupboard and take out a rifle.

The missing rifle might have been why Nevill appeared agitated when farm secretary Barbara Wilson rang. We just don't know.

[Steve_uk]

Believe Bamber would have made out Shelia was raging at the supper table about that if he wanted to use it to his advantage.

Possibly, but remember he told Julie: "It's important to tell the truth wherever possible."

[ILB]

The problem with that is the twins were already living with CC & his partner. So she was already not seeing the twins much. CC would make any decisions on the twins

Bamber is the only person who witnessed the conversation. The judge said Sheila's non response means it cannot be considered a motivation.

The jury being asked to believe Sheila killed her family for no reason would have given Rivlin sleepless nights.

So why use a fostering conversation as a placebo if he couldnt get an advantage out of it?

[ILB]

My take is that's its a conversation that's probably happened at some point

[Adam]

So why use a fostering conversation as a placebo if he couldnt get an advantage out of it?

Because he thought he could get an advantage out of it. It worked for a few days but the judge shut it down at trial. 

The jury believing Sheila committed the massacre while everyone slept for no reason was always going to be very unlikely.

[Adam]

Seems the defence case was to focus on Julie. Bringing up a minor cheque book fraud 2 years earlier.

They said cycling to/from WHF & getting in through windows was possible. But that does mean he did.

It is likely they said Nevill called Bamber after Sheila had shot him 4 times. The prosecution opposing by saying there was no blood on the phone & Nevill would have had difficulty speaking.

They decided Bamber should testify. Which didn't work.

[ILB]

Because he thought he could get an advantage out of it. It worked for a few days but the judge shut it down at trial. 

The jury believing Sheila committed the massacre while everyone slept for no reason was always going to be very unlikely.

When Bamber committed the crimes and spoke to the police is when it mattered in this instance
 What was going through his head and his reasonings.

Not a trial a year down the line, the night in question and immediate aftermath.

It also worked longer than a day to be fair, he wasnt arrested till a month later after Julie got dumped for an upgrade.

[Adam]

When Bamber committed the crimes and spoke to the police is when it mattered in this instance
 What was going through his head and his reasonings.

Not a trial a year down the line, the night in question and immediate aftermath.

It also worked longer than a day to be fair, he wasnt arrested till a month later after Julie got dumped for an upgrade.

I did say 'a few days'. While evidence was processed, Julie was kept at bay and Taff dug in.

[Adam]

The defence scenario does not have Nevill calling Chelmsford Police. This claim was made 25 years later after Bamber saw the WS's of West and Bonnet were different.

After being shot 4 times and with Sheila about to fire more bullets, it is very surprising Bamber answered the phone before Sheila's kitchen attack. So no way Nevill had time to call Chelmsford Police.

[Adam]

The 3 possible times Nevill could have started calling Jeremy's AM are -

After he had been shot 4 times - Defence scenario.

While fully fit downstairs before Sheila picked up the rifle - Supporters scenarios.

While fully fit downstairs after Sheila had picked up the rifle - Supporters scenarios.

----------

Option 1 gave Nevill very limited time before Sheila would attack him in the kitchen. If he was going to ring someone it would be 999 for an ambulance. He would choose to disarm Sheila instead as it was too late to start phoning Jeremy..

Option 2, he would use June if unable to calm Sheila down by talking.

Option 3 he would disarm Sheila himself & would not need Jeremy. He now had no time to start ringing Jeremy.

[Adam]

Options 2 & 3 could not be used in court. As it was inventing conversations of which there is no evidence.

Nevill being found bare footed in sleeping attire after being shot twice from close range in the bedroom, supports the defence scenario  that he started phoning Jeremy after him & June had been shot 9 times.

[snow66!]

Options 2 & 3 could not be used in court. As it was inventing conversations of which there is no evidence.

Nevill being found bare footed in sleeping attire after being shot twice from close range in the bedroom, supports the defence scenario  that he started phoning Jeremy after him & June had been shot 9 times.

Option 4. after Nevill regained conciousness after lying against the Aga.Evidence unknown to the defence in 1986, supported by the three burns found on Nevills back!

[Adam]

Option 4. after Nevill regained conciousness after lying against the Aga.Evidence unknown to the defence in 1986, supported by the three burns found on Nevills back!

As with option 2 & 3 that could not be used at court as it is too far fetched 

[Rob_]

I am sure if the two logs of West and Bonnet were known to the defense at the time of the trial it would have changed the whole defense strategy.

Just too many differences to be easily explained away, and the reason West copied his log to prevent ESDA testing.

[Jonathan]

Sheila goes downstairs. She puts silencer on rifle. Then fills up seperate magazine with 8 bullets.

I guess she puts the silencer on so she can complete the massacre without other family members hearing.