New Yorker podcast

[Bubo bubo]

New Yorker

It is in six parts. There is, from memory, a lot about the chain of custody and I believe possible interference by members of the family

[Adam]

What could he have said which would have sank the prosecution case?

Taff had to accept the murder/suicide narrative at 7.30am on the 7th August 1985. It was the only narrative given.
The media then reported it as such.

Bews, Miller, SJ, the relatives & Julie were all suspicious. The evidence was going to take a few weeks to process so Taff could not change.

He stayed on the case after Ainsley took over. So do believe he would have testifed for the defence.

[Adam]

No one at trial believed Nevill called Jeremy after he had been shot 4 times and before the kitchen attack. Even if Sheila had given him some time.

But the defence could not invent a pre shot conversation & Nevill was dead/knocked out after the kitchen attack.

[Hardy Boy]

Of course Taff had his reasons for believing it was murder suicide and it was not just him most of the officers present saw nothing wrong with the crime scene, if he took the sand explaining his reasons the case collapses.

We cannot see all the original case notes unfortunately.     

Taff Jones arrived at WHF at around 9.05am and was taken through the house by Woodcock to view the bodies. Within roughly twenty-five minutes, by about 9.30am, he had left the house and went to Miller, Cook, Stan Jones and two other SOCOs outside in the yard,  where he stated it was a suicide and explained how it had happened. This to me was Taff delivering it as a settled fact, and not open for discussion, all the other officers just fell into line with What Taff had said.  and after that,  Woodcock did not see him again.

So in effect…. A murder suicide conclusion was formed by Taff, and presented within 25 minutes of arrival, prior to any forensic examination, and acted upon as a settled fact, and  by early afternoon the bodies had been removed!   

[Jane]

Taff Jones arrived at WHF at around 9.05am and was taken through the house by Woodcock to view the bodies. Within roughly twenty-five minutes, by about 9.30am, he had left the house and went to Miller, Cook, Stan Jones and two other SOCOs outside in the yard,  where he stated it was a suicide and explained how it had happened. This to me was Taff delivering it as a settled fact, and not open for discussion, all the other officers just fell into line with What Taff had said.  and after that,  Woodcock did not see him again.

So in effect…. A murder suicide conclusion was formed by Taff, and presented within 25 minutes of arrival, prior to any forensic examination, and acted upon as a settled fact, and  by early afternoon the bodies had been removed!

I'll hazard a guess that someone had fed him the information JB had given them?  After that it must have been a foregone conclusion. A no-brainer, I suppose?

[Roch]

I'll hazard a guess that someone had fed him the information JB had given them?  After that it must have been a foregone conclusion. A no-brainer, I suppose?

This isn't how police officers work.

[Jane]

This isn't how police officers work.

However, with no information, other than JB's, the evidence of the sequence suggests such to have been the case.

[Adam]

Very optimistic for Jeremy at trial to say Nevill called him after his 4 shots & before the kitchen attack. If Sheila wanted everyone dead, likely she would chase a still alive Nevill.

But appreciate that was the only window available.

He later claimed this narrow window also gave Nevill time to call Chelmsford Police!

Bit cheeky.

[Hardy Boy]

I'll hazard a guess that someone had fed him the information JB had given them?  After that it must have been a foregone conclusion. A no-brainer, I suppose?

You've hit it right on the head there Jane, in his notes he states “as a result of what I was told”.  So he’d been fed what Jeremy had told them.  He was inside the house for 25 mins and wrapped the case up,   not even requesting Pathologist and ballistics and telling Cook he didn’t require a full house search,  the bodies removed and on their way to the morgue for 1.00pm and Taff back in his office for 11.30am doing his reports.

[Bubo bubo]

You've hit it right on the head there Jane, in his notes he states “as a result of what I was told”.  So he’d been fed what Jeremy had told them.  He was inside the house for 25 mins and wrapped the case up,   not even requesting Pathologist and ballistics and telling Cook he didn’t require a full house search,  the bodies removed and on their way to the morgue for 1.00pm and Taff back in his office for 11.30am doing his reports.

Do not just play with words. The SIO when he arrived was the Divisional Commander Harris. He arrived at WHF 07.40 He had made a full assessment and  visited the full scene with other officers before speaking to JB at 08.15. He even visited again with DR Craig while he confirmed deaths. He then entered for a third time with Taff at 09.05 and left with him at 09.34. Taff had not spoken to JB at that time. There is no reference in the Harris statement that JB told him a load of porkies to 'wrong' foot' the police. They talked about him wanting to see his dad and wanting to contact JM

I have had recourse to call you out on this before.

'That is pure assumption on your part with no evidence. Harris was the SIO and he would be responsible for the call. He backed Taff's operation'.

[Rob_]

Taff Jones arrived at WHF at around 9.05am and was taken through the house by Woodcock to view the bodies. Within roughly twenty-five minutes, by about 9.30am, he had left the house and went to Miller, Cook, Stan Jones and two other SOCOs outside in the yard,  where he stated it was a suicide and explained how it had happened. This to me was Taff delivering it as a settled fact, and not open for discussion, all the other officers just fell into line with What Taff had said.  and after that,  Woodcock did not see him again.

So in effect…. A murder suicide conclusion was formed by Taff, and presented within 25 minutes of arrival, prior to any forensic examination, and acted upon as a settled fact, and  by early afternoon the bodies had been removed!

50 or so officers and no one able to go up to Taff and other even more senior officers present and say "Boss something seriously wrong here"

Thats because there was nothing not supporting murder suicide at the crime scene.   

[Hardy Boy]

Do not just play with words. The SIO when he arrived was the Divisional Commander Harris. He arrived at WHF 07.40 He had made a full assessment and  visited the full scene with other officers before speaking to JB at 08.15. He even visited again with DR Craig while he confirmed deaths. He then entered for a third time with Taff at 09.05 and left with him at 09.34. Taff had not spoken to JB at that time. There is no reference in the Harris statement that JB told him a load of porkies to 'wrong' foot' the police. They talked about him wanting to see his dad and wanting to contact JM

I have had recourse to call you out on this before.

'That is pure assumption on your part with no evidence. Harris was the SIO and he would be responsible for the call. He backed Taff's operation'.

Read Taffs notes you idiot, he says as a result of what I was told, whether it was from Harris or Bamber, it doesn’t matter,   how am I playing with words, it’s what TAFF wrote you idiot!  Woodcock says in his notes what time Taff arrived and left the house, read up before you accuse!

[Hardy Boy]

50 or so officers and no one able to go up to Taff and other even more senior officers present and say "Boss something seriously wrong here"

Thats because there was nothing not supporting murder suicide at the crime scene.   

Who’s the 50 officers, he went outside to Miller, Stan and Cook and two more SOCO and said it’s suicide, he told Cook later he didn’t want a full house search, the bodies where on their way to the Morgue for 1.00pm and Taff was back in his office for 11.30om.  Woodcock was there, neither you or Bubo was there, Woodcock wasn’t happy at all with the murder suicide theory.

[Jane]

Do not just play with words. The SIO when he arrived was the Divisional Commander Harris. He arrived at WHF 07.40 He had made a full assessment and  visited the full scene with other officers before speaking to JB at 08.15. He even visited again with DR Craig while he confirmed deaths. He then entered for a third time with Taff at 09.05 and left with him at 09.34. Taff had not spoken to JB at that time. There is no reference in the Harris statement that JB told him a load of porkies to 'wrong' foot' the police. They talked about him wanting to see his dad and wanting to contact JM

I have had recourse to call you out on this before.

'That is pure assumption on your part with no evidence. Harris was the SIO and he would be responsible for the call. He backed Taff's operation'.

"I have had recourse to call you out on this before"!!!!  Just who the HELL do you think you are, you arrogant, pompous....................person!! Still. at least I can be thankful that you have me on ignore so you won't see this. But the rest of the forum hasn't so they can!

[Jane]

50 or so officers and no one able to go up to Taff and other even more senior officers present and say "Boss something seriously wrong here"

Thats because there was nothing not supporting murder suicide at the crime scene.   

Or because he was the sort who refused to listen to argument?