Article about recent decision

[Hardy Boy]

That means you believe that NB went to bed without a phone and we know he did not take the fawn phone because it was missing and it is not in any bedroom photos we have to view on this site. It was harvest time and he would/might need to react to any emergencies if they arose. If the phone was in the kitchen, he might not have been able to hear it. He does not seem to me a guy who would take such a risk

Could it be that the Cream phone was moved to the Kitchen over the weekend or on the day Pike came to collect the broken Cordless,  and the Fawn phone was moved to the bedroom for Neville to use for Emergencies?  Like you said, June preferred the Cream phone and she would get more use out of it in the Kitchen.  Neville’s cordless phone had broke, so he might prefer the Cream phone in the Kitchen?

We know that the Cream phone was only two months old and the Fawn Phone was much older,  the Fawn phone was still working confirmed in June  85 by the engineer and confirmed by Jean and Barbara so why not make use out of it?  It would make sense to switch the newer Cream phone to the Kitchen and put the older Fawn phone in the bedroom next to Neville in case of Emergencies like you said, and I would have thought the bedroom Phone would be least used anyway?

We know for a Fact that the cream phone was in the Kitchen and seen by Pike on the 5th of August, we know for a fact, the raid team made statements that the cream phone was off the hook and in the Kitchen, we know for a fact, the crime scene photo’s show the cream phone in the Kitchen with the phone off the hook.  We know for a fact that the line was open and enabling the operator and police to listen in, we know that they could hear the challenges being made through the loud hailer from the Kitchen White Side. We know that Bamber tipped the Bullets out the case between 9.00pm and 10.00pm next to the Phone on the night of the tragedy, we know that June and Pam spoke at 10.00pm on the night of the tragedy for about 20 mins, even inviting Sheila to speak to Pam before she went to bed.  Jean said Bamber told her that the bedroom phone was brought down to the Kitchen to replace the broken Fawn kitchen  phone?

So now we have to ask, why did Bamber tell Jean that the Kitchen phone was a spare, why did Bamber tell Jean that the kitchen Phone had broken when in fact it was working perfectly, and why was the Kitchen phone hid underneath a pile of magazine’s?

Why would Neville or June hide a perfectly working phone underneath a pile of magazine’s, when you've just lost the use of your cordless phone, doing this  takes you from 4 usable phones down to 2 usable phones, a 50% cut?  Like Bubo said, Neville would prefer a phone at his side of the bed just for Emergencies?

Could it be that it was the Fawn Coloured phone that was removed from the bedroom and hid by someone prior to the murders?

[Hardy Boy]

That means you believe that NB went to bed without a phone and we know he did not take the fawn phone because it was missing and it is not in any bedroom photos we have to view on this site. It was harvest time and he would/might need to react to any emergencies if they arose. If the phone was in the kitchen, he might not have been able to hear it. He does not seem to me a guy who would take such a risk

That means you believe someone moved the bedroom phone to the Kitchen,  either the killer or the Police? 

[Bubo bubo]

That means you believe someone moved the bedroom phone to the Kitchen,  either the killer or the Police?

Yes.

[Bubo bubo]

Could it be that the Cream phone was moved to the Kitchen over the weekend or on the day Pike came to collect the broken Cordless,  and the Fawn phone was moved to the bedroom for Neville to use for Emergencies?  Like you said, June preferred the Cream phone and she would get more use out of it in the Kitchen.  Neville’s cordless phone had broke, so he might prefer the Cream phone in the Kitchen?

We know that the Cream phone was only two months old and the Fawn Phone was much older,  the Fawn phone was still working confirmed in June  85 by the engineer and confirmed by Jean and Barbara so why not make use out of it? 1 It would make sense to switch the newer Cream phone to the Kitchen and put the older Fawn phone in the bedroom next to Neville in case of Emergencies like you said, and I would have thought the bedroom Phone would be least used anyway?

We know for a Fact that the cream phone was in the Kitchen and seen by Pike on the 5th of August, we know for a fact, the raid team made statements that the cream phone was off the hook and in the Kitchen, we know for a fact, the crime scene photo’s show the cream phone in the Kitchen with the phone off the hook. 2 We know for a fact that the line was open and enabling the operator and police to listen in, we know that they could hear the challenges being made through the loud hailer from the Kitchen White Side. 3 We know that Bamber tipped the Bullets out the case between 9.00pm and 10.00pm next to the Phone on the night of the tragedy, we know that June and Pam spoke at 10.00pm on the night of the tragedy for about 20 mins, even inviting Sheila to speak to Pam before she went to bed. 4 Jean said Bamber told her that the bedroom phone was brought down to the Kitchen to replace the broken Fawn kitchen  phone?

So now we have to ask, why did Bamber tell Jean that the Kitchen phone was a spare, why did Bamber tell Jean that the kitchen Phone had broken when in fact it was working perfectly, and why was the Kitchen phone hid underneath a pile of magazine’s?

Why would Neville or June hide a perfectly working phone underneath a pile of magazine’s, when you've just lost the use of your cordless phone, doing this  takes you from 4 usable phones down to 2 usable phones, a 50% cut?  Like Bubo said, Neville would prefer a phone at his side of the bed just for Emergencies?

5 Could it be that it was the Fawn Coloured phone that was removed from the bedroom and hid by someone prior to the murders?

1 We can't know what choices they made. If NB preferred the bedroom phone in the kitchen. Maybe he preferred it in the bedroom as well.

2 The police may have made their challenges in different locations over time not just the white side. If there was a cover up they would say what fitted their story best. With the bedroom window open and and WHF in a remote location it may have been possible to hear the challenges. Maybe if they only challenged on the white side they got no response because anyone still alive could not hear it.

3 JB left at 09.30 and we do not have an accurate time for this particular event.

4 No. We have addressed that issue. He told her it was the spare. He may have regarded the cordless phone as the kitchen phone. He would be OK with using a modern piece of tech and it would allow him to make calls in privacy away from the kitchen.

5 Yes. But that would be more easily done by SC. JB would have to do this without being spotted and trust that no one realised the fawn phone had gone missing. Hardly a satisfactory part of a perfect murder plan.

[Hardy Boy]

I found this interesting……….. In the 80s, telephone technology allowed operators to potentially monitor or access phone lines under certain circumstances, such as for troubleshooting or wiretapping with legal authorization. However, the extent to which an operator could listen into a NON-PRIMARY phone line off the hook would depend on the specific telephone system and any installed monitoring equipment.

Non-Primary Lines (Extensions):
These lines were added later to provide additional phone connections. They could be used for separate extensions within a home (e.g., in a bedroom or study) or to manage a higher volume of calls in a business setting.

[Bubo bubo]

I found this interesting……….. In the 80s, telephone technology allowed operators to potentially monitor or access phone lines under certain circumstances, such as for troubleshooting or wiretapping with legal authorization. However, the extent to which an operator could listen into a NON-PRIMARY phone line off the hook would depend on the specific telephone system and any installed monitoring equipment.

Non-Primary Lines (Extensions):
These lines were added later to provide additional phone connections. They could be used for separate extensions within a home (e.g., in a bedroom or study) or to manage a higher volume of calls in a business setting.

Thanks for that. I knew about he need for a warrant in major eavesdropping. It was very difficult to get a second line in many rural areas and that is why many homes like WHF had extensions. WHF was a large property and a business. For small requirements you could add your own extensions to suit. I have had such a system at my current address but digital phones meant It could be removed.

Since the cream phone was new I doubt it would have prevented the operator listening in but without knowing the precise details of the WHF system layout cannot say one way or the other with certainty

[Hardy Boy]

Thanks for that. I knew about he need for a warrant in major eavesdropping. It was very difficult to get a second line in many rural areas and that is why many homes like WHF had extensions. WHF was a large property and a business. For small requirements you could add your own extensions to suit. I have had such a system at my current address but digital phones meant It could be removed.

Since the cream phone was new I doubt it would have prevented the operator listening in but without knowing the precise details of the WHF system layout cannot say one way or the other with certainty

Ive also picked up that Jean did attend Court and Said she had never heard Jeremy speak ill of his family, in all the years she worked there.  Barbara Wilson was worried about Jean because she never believed Sheila or Jeremy killed the family, she believed someone else did it?

So Jean had no grudge with Jeremy, she spoke the truth when she told of him saying it was a spare, and the bedroom phone had been brought down to replace the Kitchen Phone because the kitchen phone was broke. 

[Hardy Boy]

1 We can't know what choices they made. If NB preferred the bedroom phone in the kitchen. Maybe he preferred it in the bedroom as well.

2 The police may have made their challenges in different locations over time not just the white side. If there was a cover up they would say what fitted their story best. With the bedroom window open and and WHF in a remote location it may have been possible to hear the challenges. Maybe if they only challenged on the white side they got no response because anyone still alive could not hear it.

3 JB left at 09.30 and we do not have an accurate time for this particular event.

4 No. We have addressed that issue. He told her it was the spare. He may have regarded the cordless phone as the kitchen phone. He would be OK with using a modern piece of tech and it would allow him to make calls in privacy away from the kitchen.

5 Yes. But that would be more easily done by SC. JB would have to do this without being spotted and trust that no one realised the fawn phone had gone missing. Hardly a satisfactory part of a perfect murder plan.

1 Maybe he had no choice but to leave it in the Kitchen and was quite happy to have the Fawn coloured older phone by his bed?

2. Nope,  the challenges were made from White side about 30m away from the Kitchen, this continued for two hours.  The only sound they heard was the barking dog, maybe the dog came down to the kitchen because of the challenges and that’s why the operator could hear the challenges and the barking dog?  PC Dermot  who was on Green side could hear the challenges being made from the other side of the house which was White side.

3. JB did not leave at 9.30 pm like you claim, he returned to the house on foot after doing some work in the fields he got there about 9.45 pm, then he sat with his father to chat about Work for 5 mins.


4. Again, Jean would not lie about this, there was no need to lie, she would not have made this up.  she didn’t believe Jeremy or Sheila could do such a thing and kill their mum and Dad and the twins, she recollects that Bamber said to her it was a spare, and then he told her later that the Kitchen phone had broken and then the bedroom phone was brought down to replace it.  Which could be true, it had a habit of sticking when the numbers were pressed in.  But later it was tested and it worked fine.

[Bubo bubo]

Ive also picked up that Jean did attend Court and Said she had never heard Jeremy speak ill of his family, in all the years she worked there.  Barbara Wilson was worried about Jean because she never believed Sheila or Jeremy killed the family, she believed someone else did it?

So Jean had no grudge with Jeremy, she spoke the truth when she told of him saying it was a spare, and the bedroom phone had been brought down to replace the Kitchen Phone because the kitchen phone was broke.

We still do not know who hid/misplaced the fawn phone. The bedroom phone was June's preferred phone for use in the kitchen. We do not know whether Jean Buotell and JB both called the fawn phone the kitchen phone. But since he referred to it as a spare he did not regard it as the kitchen phone. The only broken phone we know about was the cordless.

[Hardy Boy]

We do not know whether Jean Buotell and JB both called the fawn phone the kitchen phone. But since he referred to it as a spare he did not regard it as the kitchen phone.

Nope, Jeremy told Jean the Bedroom phone had been brought down to replace the Broken Kitchen Phone,  why would Jean lie?  The engineer called in the later part of June and said the statesman phone was in the Kitchen and in working order.  Barbara Wilson said the Fawn phone was the Kitchen Phone, when Jean uncovered the Fawn coloured phone from the Magazines she realised it was the Kitchen Phone, then she realised that the cream phone was the bedroom phone.

[Bubo bubo]

We still do not know who hid/misplaced the fawn phone. The bedroom phone was June's preferred phone for use in the kitchen. We do not know whether Jean Buotell and JB both called the fawn phone the kitchen phone. But since he referred to it as a spare he did not regard it as the kitchen phone. The only broken phone we know about was the cordless.

The buttons sticking on the fawn phone was possibly the reason June preferred the bedroom phone in the kitchen. It is possible June phoned 999 even if she had not heard the challenges. The green side was facing SC's bedroom so it is possible that the challenges would be heard in the main bedroom which was in the same plane as the photo shows.

[Hardy Boy]

The buttons sticking on the fawn phone was possibly the reason June preferred the bedroom phone in the kitchen. It is possible June phoned 999 even if she had not heard the challenges. The green side was facing SC's bedroom so it is possible that the challenges would be heard in the main bedroom which was in the same plane as the photo shows.

Please remind us why June phoned 999.  Do you think Sheila killed everyone and left or just wounded June,  and then decided to shoot her later?  Or is it still your belief that the TFG shot June?

[Bubo bubo]

Nope, Jeremy told Jean the Bedroom phone had been brought down to replace the Broken Kitchen Phone,  why would Jean lie? The engineer called in the later part of June and said the statesman phone was in the Kitchen and in working order.  Barbara Wilson said the Fawn phone was the Kitchen Phone, when Jean uncovered the Fawn coloured phone from the Magazines she realised it was the Kitchen Phone, then she realised that the cream phone was the bedroom phone.

She did not lie. She may have had a different understanding/interpretation from JB as to what was the kitchen phone until weeks later when she found the fawn phone and had a conversation with BW. It does not follow that BW would have agreed with JB as to what was the kitchen phone and whether the fawn phone was only a spare. We are no further forward. Who hid misplaced the fawn phone. Her memory failed her when she made her statement and she agreed JB had referred to it as a spare when testifying.

[Hardy Boy]

The buttons sticking on the fawn phone was possibly the reason June preferred the bedroom phone in the kitchen. It is possible June phoned 999 even if she had not heard the challenges. The green side was facing SC's bedroom so it is possible that the challenges would be heard in the main bedroom which was in the same plane as the photo shows.

I thought that was Red side facing the main bedroom?  Green was the opposite to red which was the coal shed area?  White was the kitchen and black was the Scullery area?

Dermot took up a position Green /white side which was in the cattle shed.

[Hardy Boy]

She did not lie. She may have had a different understanding/interpretation from JB as to what was the kitchen phone until weeks later when she found the fawn phone and had a conversation with BW. It does not follow that BW would have agreed with JB as to what was the kitchen phone and whether the fawn phone was only a spare. We are no further forward. Who hid misplaced the fawn phone. Her memory failed her when she made her statement and she agreed JB had referred to it as a spare when testifying.

So she cleaned the house for x number of years and didn’t know the kitchen phone?  Ok. And   Barbara worked for Neville x number of years and didn’t know the kitchen phone?  Ok