Article about recent decision

[Bubo bubo]

WHF only had one phone line, so if the kitchen phone was off the hook it wasn’t possible to dial out from any other phone, the last time Rowe was asked to make the connection she left the lines connected that was about 5.50 am that she was asked, not sure how long it took though?  So for anyone to ring out from WHF they would have to break the connection, those monitoring the line would have realised the break in connection, so if there had been a break in connection they would have had to ring back and get a connection again and it would have been impossible to listen in I would have thought?

You are correct but we do not know which phone was off the hook. The line was off the hook and then engaged according to the logs and the operator(s) communications. Unless the operator checked at precisely the moment the handset was replaced they would not know this has happened because a new call would follow immediately and the status would be engaged which is how it was reported and logged.

[Jane]

Well. if you're not happy with Nevill being hit on the head by Sheila, how about this, Jane!
Nevill, who was the wrong side of sixty with health problems including stress and worry about his mentally ill daughter succumbed to a heart attack or stroke and fell against the Aga while confronting Sheila in the kitchen after finding her with a loaded rifle??
Hows that??

Speculation? Supposition? Making it up till you think it fits?

[Hardy Boy]

You are correct but we do not know which phone was off the hook. The line was off the hook and then engaged according to the logs and the operator(s) communications. Unless the operator checked at precisely the moment the handset was replaced they would not know this has happened because a new call would follow immediately and the status would be engaged which is how it was reported and logged.

The Kitchen phone was found off the hook, also they could hear challenges being made Kitchen side to the house from outside the house when they listened in,  these challenges went on for some while.

[snow66!]

Speculation? Supposition? Making it up till you think it fits?

But of course, Jane! I'm making it up to fit around the Aga evidence naturally!

[Jane]

But of course, Jane! I'm making it up to fit around the Aga evidence naturally!

No need to explain, Snow. I think such has long been accepted.

[Hardy Boy]

To break the phone connection and enable a call to be made someone had to put the receiver back on the cradle at WHF to get the dialling tone.  I’m not sure if the 2 minute rule would apply with the telephone exchange.  Those monitoring would then lose connection. 

So the caller rings 999 from inside WHF and gets through to Millbank, but says nothing?   Millbank would have lost connection from monitoring inside WHF he would then have to ring the exchange to connect him back up again.  Now if someone had rang from WHF and for the exchange to make a connection again and for them to listen in, the Phone would have to be left off the hook again by the caller?

[Hardy Boy]

To break the phone connection and enable a call to be made someone had to put the receiver back on the cradle at WHF to get the dialling tone.  I’m not sure if the 2 minute rule would apply with the telephone exchange.  Those monitoring would then lose connection. 

So the caller rings 999 from inside WHF and gets through to Millbank, but says nothing?   Millbank would have lost connection from monitoring inside WHF he would then have to ring the exchange to connect him back up again.  Now if someone had rang from WHF and for the exchange to make a connection again and for them to listen in, the Phone would have to be left off the hook again by the caller?

Why would the 999 call have been kept secret from Adams and the raid team, as far as they were aware no one was responding from inside WHF.  This would have been a very important piece of information.

[BarefootDanC]

You are correct but we do not know which phone was off the hook. The line was off the hook and then engaged according to the logs and the operator(s) communications. Unless the operator checked at precisely the moment the handset was replaced they would not know this has happened because a new call would follow immediately and the status would be engaged which is how it was reported and logged.

The phone was never "engaged", it was off the hook. Taking the phone off the hook gives the same tone as a phone being engaged.

Bamber took the phone off the hook after killing the family, just he returned home from WHF.

[Bubo bubo]

The Kitchen phone was found off the hook, also they could hear challenges being made Kitchen side to the house from outside the house when they listened in,  these challenges went on for some while.

The phone in the kitchen was the bedroom phone. The usual kitchen phone was more modern and had the ability to display the last number dialled. This was missing but found some weeks later within a stack of papers and magazines in a part of the kitchen furniture?

The main bedroom window was open at the top so in theory this could explain the challenges which were heard.

[snow66!]

To break the phone connection and enable a call to be made someone had to put the receiver back on the cradle at WHF to get the dialling tone.  I’m not sure if the 2 minute rule would apply with the telephone exchange.  Those monitoring would then lose connection. 

So the caller rings 999 from inside WHF and gets through to Millbank, but says nothing?   Millbank would have lost connection from monitoring inside WHF he would then have to ring the exchange to connect him back up again.  Now if someone had rang from WHF and for the exchange to make a connection again and for them to listen in, the Phone would have to be left off the hook again by the caller?

Yes, if someone made a call from inside the farm house they would need to replace the receiver, pick up the handset,make the call and then leave the phone off the hook again the way it was found upon entry, HB. Does this seem likely? Well on the face of it no, but I haven't seen Milbanks side of the story yet! Only Heidi Blakes version from the Newyorker which doesn't really explain much of the finer details being discussed here.

[BarefootDanC]

Yes, if someone made a call from inside the farm house they would need to replace the receiver, pick up the handset,make the call and then leave the phone off the hook again the way it was found upon entry, HB. Does this seem likely? Well on the face of it no, but I haven't seen Milbanks side of the story yet! Only Heidi Blakes version from the Newyorker which doesn't really explain much of the finer details being discussed here.

Why didn't Heidi Blake ask Milbank exactly what happened? Why didn't she ask him "did someone make a 999 call from within the house"?

[Bubo bubo]

The phone was never "engaged", it was off the hook. Taking the phone off the hook gives the same tone as a phone being engaged.

Bamber took the phone off the hook after killing the family, just he returned home from WHF.

Hmmmm

[Bubo bubo]

Why would the 999 call have been kept secret from Adams and the raid team, as far as they were aware no one was responding from inside WHF.  This would have been a very important piece of information.

They were only too happy by the way it was played in the first instance. If as I have come to think the TFG dropped a clanger in the course of the raid. They would be glad that the decision to cover it up had been authorised. Nevertheless they could have initially been briefed that there was at least one person alive. Given the nature of the incident it is not too hard to imagine a catastrophic accident whilst trying their best to deal with a difficult task and no doubt despite rigorous training. This could have been their first such incident. It would have taken seconds.

[snow66!]

Why didn't Heidi Blake ask Milbank exactly what happened? Why didn't she ask him "did someone make a 999 call from within the house"?

Exactly Dan, exactly! We need to know what the exact setting was!
What was Milbank doing when he answered the '999' call?
Had he been briefed by Burrell as to what was happening at the Whitehouse ?
Was Milbank monitoring the line when he received the call? Couldn't have been surely, else he would have heard the receiver being replaced and the link to the Whitehouse broken?
Was he just sitting in the station doing nothing when a '999' call came in and he picked up the phone? And if so,how did he know it was from the Whitehouse?

We need the exact details, Dan!

[Bubo bubo]

Yes, if someone made a call from inside the farm house they would need to replace the receiver, pick up the handset,make the call and then leave the phone off the hook again the way it was found upon entry, HB. Does this seem likely? Well on the face of it no, but I haven't seen Milbanks side of the story yet! Only Heidi Blakes version from the Newyorker which doesn't really explain much of the finer details being discussed here.

Good points. Why was the bedroom phone in the kitchen? Why was the usual more modern phone found weeks later in a pile of magazines and papers? Here is a thought. The police had to distance June from the 999 call. If there was no phone in the bedroom how could she make the call.

I am looking forward to hear what she has to say.